Immortals Handbook - ASCENSION

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

ooooo!
i don't knwo why , but the i prefer the X2 ; X10 ECL factor.

Probably because the big numbers sound cooler to you!

Is it possible (house rule ) to be a lvl 35 warrior with the Disciple template?

Of course, you don't need to house rule anything - its in the book.

There is only a suggested minimum listed in the book, there is no maximum for a divinity template.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

I encountered the Goetic Blood problem too, since I made a template for my game (granted automatically to members of a certain class who reach a high enough level) that has it. At the moment I have it written such that the number of spell levels can pay metamagic costs too- so for instance you could do an Extended Summon IX with 100 points of damage- but the above ideas are good too.

The bonus to CR is probably the best one for a long-term solution, given how quickly damage scales at Epic levels once one really piles on available bonuses. The party tank in my Epic game (currently 28th level, possibly 29th at the end of next session) has the ability to use Giant Size (from the Spell Compendium) 3 times per day thanks to a magic item, and when he's "embiggened" he usually deals over 100 points of damage per hit. Power Attack and the party Bard's Words of Creation-enhanced Inspire Courage can raise it even higher. Creatures available to a mere Summon Monster IX would barely make speed bumps in light of that kind of damage output; he'd be able to take most of them down with a single swing.

I always planned to take account of Summon Monster X and above.

However, I now prefer the damage squared = spell level approach because it prevents a Neutronium Golem hitting someone with Goetic Blood and summoning a monster more powerful than itself.

I may also stipulate that the monsters CR cannot ultimately be higher than the immortals Hit Dice.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Heh.
Oh, one thing I find interesting is the sheer number of possible "tactics" even at high end (Timelord/Highlord level) play; Ex: Theres no one set "list" of uber powers to take that makes you exactly the same as the next uberlord.
One might take all the Total and Legendary Abilites with Equilibrium and the Interdimentional abilities and just stall until he eclipses his foe.
Another might take Infinite Charisma, and the Cursed and Daunting abilites to penalize his foe into oblivion. (Telluric Vexing Storms seem to work well for this too)
Yes, at some point around rank 1 million all the deities look the same power-wise, but within reasonable levels of play, there is no set "way to win" just simply a large but probably finite number of different ways to go about it.

Thats probably ended up like that because I am always trying to keep things as balanced as possible, with counters to most powers.

I mean its not perfect obviously but I'm trying my best.

And trying to picture the beings that utilize these tactices is like combining every episode of DBZ with every Kung Fu movie and splashing some Twilight Zone just for kicks.

Funny you mention DBZ, I initally had a Ki [Effect] in there that was meant to duplicate stuff like Kame-hame-ha and so forth. Can't remember why I removed it to be honest...?

Oh, and UK; If Writhing effect works as listed in 1.1, how does Ultima effect compare? is it just a higher damage die?

Well, you see, Writhing predated Ultima. But I came to see that Writhing was simply a mechanic on its own (initially I had a repeating/writhing type effect for a number of powers, like level drain and so forth).

Initially Ultima was simply d100. But I had the idea that the Transcendental Effects should be duo-dimensional, but it was incredibly tricky to sort out the way I wanted.

I wanted an Effect that was between Spirit and Matter, one that was between Fate and Death, and another that was between Time and Thought.

Those three powers became Astro, Omega and Ultima. But they never really fit with the above criteria.

But I needed three distinct mechanics at that point, because it is brutally difficult coming up with new Effects at Transcendental level that are not simply better versions of weaker Cosmic or Divine Effects.

Anyway I'm waffling, but the bottom line is that I don't have it all satisfactorily sorted yet - but I will for the next update.

 

[Rockhoward56]

yo

Thank you U-K for your answer!

Probably because the big numbers sound cooler to you!

It's true , i like big numbers!

So no maximum? you could be a 11255888 lvl Intermediate deity? that's great! but for the caps of Time Lord?
Please answer me pal

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

U_K!

Thats probably ended up like that because I am always trying to keep things as balanced as possible, with counters to most powers.
I mean its not perfect obviously but I'm trying my best.

And you have done quite a good job. Your system presents an interesting array of tactical and flavorful setups; Ex: Omnific powers, while (omni)potent are not necessarily the best you could have in a situation; Infinite strength is countered by having Total Strength.

Funny you mention DBZ, I initally had a Ki [Effect] in there that was meant to duplicate stuff like Kame-hame-ha and so forth. Can't remember why I removed it
to be honest...?

... Perhaps because it was unnecessary? You could just take Divine Inspiriation, and Give everyone in your (Universe sized) aura Divine Effect and the Combine Effects ability to create Spirit Bomb, and Kamehameha could just be a Force Effect.
Your powers don't have too much "mandated" flavor, so one effect for one deity could be totally different "looking" than another deity's. (and that is what makes the system cool; No two gods are the same, even if their power loadout looks largely similar)

Well, you see, Writhing predated Ultima. But I came to see that Writhing was simply a mechanic on its own (initially I had a repeating/writhing type effect for a number of powers, like level drain and so forth).
Initially Ultima was simply d100. But I had the idea that the Transcendental Effects should be duo-dimensional, but it was incredibly tricky to sort out the way I wanted.
I wanted an Effect that was between Spirit and Matter, one that was between Fate and Death, and another that was between Time and Thought.
Those three powers became Astro, Omega and Ultima. But they never really fit with the above criteria.
But I needed three distinct mechanics at that point, because it is brutally difficult coming up with new Effects at Transcendental level that are not simply better versions of weaker Cosmic or Divine Effects.
Anyway I'm waffling, but the bottom line is that I don't have it all satisfactorily sorted yet - but I will for the next update.

Well, if it helps, perhaps Ultima Effect could do repeating damage FOREVER until the attacking deity is neutralized/returns to home plane.
And with Telluric effect... AHHHH MY BRAIN! (Telluric effect just makes every power more fun And if it works with Akashic Effect...)
I think Omega effect fits Fate and Death quite well. (If you are hit, you are pretty much doomed) Is there any way (like with wish/epic spells/alter reality) to restore the hit dice?
Astro effect is cool, but definitely seems more powerful than the other two. Heck, a time lord with it has a 250% chance to kill anything it shoots.
Well, it sounds like you have CH 4 pretty much squared away, so perhaps Ascension will be finished by the end of the month. (Art asside)

EDIT: (As if this post wasn't long enough)

For those interested, I, in 2 weeks time or whenever the Immortal's rules are finished enough to allow it, will be running the "Immortals' Tournament" for my gaming group. It will consist of the PCs fighting their way through 11-12 rounds (or less if they die) of cliche challenges and movie/game/comic ripoff villains while testing the Immortals Rules. I will probably log the combats and post an attached summery.
In case my players are reading this, the rules are below. And if anyone on these forums would like to comment or add suggestions (Upper_Krust, I am looking at you) feel free.
- The Rules of the Tournament:[sblock]Rule 1: Core and Epic material only. This is the test of the Immortal's Handbook rules, not your ability to build Cheater Of Mystra. The Expanded Psionics Handbook may be allowed if the player who wishes to use it can demonstrate he or she knows what he or she is doing as to not bog down the game.
Rule 2: Players are to create 20th level quasi-deities.
Rule 3: Though 6-feats-to-1-divine-ability conversions are allowed, no deity may possess more than 1 Esoteric ability.
Rule 4: Each Deity will have 4 pieces of equipment. These are artifacts, and will allways be of appropriate power for your ECL. Adding divine/cosmic/etc abilities in place of magic item "Pluses" are allowed, but the deity's artifacts may not provide more than 50% more divine powers than he or she is entitled to from his or her template.
Rule 5: Banned powers - Soniferous. Useless powers - Cosmic String (All your foes will have more Hit Dice than you.), Transmortality - (If everyone is killed, they lose the tournament and thus revival is not important.)
Rule 6: All player deities fight the foe (usually of equal or higher status) in a single arena. The size of this arena is 1 mile in diameter unless the contestants are not large enough to fit within, in which case the diameter of the arena is 10 times the size of the largest contestant, and escape is not possible.
Combat within the arena may be conducted in any manner of the contestant's choosing (Or ability to enforce).
Fights are to the death, but as long as an entire team is not slain, and they defeat their foe, they advance to the next round, and all slain team members are fully restored. (Unless permenent damage has been applied, in which case, half of all lingering permenent damage is restored between rounds)
Rule 7: Victory results in moving up one divine tier and assuming the next appropriate divinity template and leveling up characters to the minimum required levels for said template. Customization of the template beyond 2:1 Ability Score converson to prime ability score is dis-allowed. (But see Rule 3)
Rule 8: If a player invokes some sort of game-breaking effect (at this level, no way!) the effects of such abuse will be undone, and the offending player will be required to adjust his or her abilities to prevent further abuse. (Choosing new abilities or feats, etc.)
Rule 9: Have fun! (And let the number headaches begin!)[/sblock]
And if you are curious as to the opponents faced, below is a innital listing. (WARNING FOR MY PLAYERS. UBER SPOILERS AHEAD!!!)
- Opponents in the Tournament:[sblock]
Round 1: VS "The Juggernaught" (Quasi-Deity Barbarian 29/Legendary Dreadnaught 1)
Round 2: VS "Team Zion": Morpheus/Trinity (Epic Mortals, both Fighter/Monk) and Neo (Lesser Deity with Lord of Perfection ability, Monk)
Round 3: VS "Team Saiyan": Nappa (Lesser Deity Barbarian with Atomic Effect "Laser Eyes")and Vegita (Saiyan Saga version, Intermediat Deity Rogue)
Round 4: VS "Mewtwo" (yes, I am seriously out of ideas. Greater Deity Psion)
Round 5: VS "Unicron" (Construct Elder One Ranger, Really, Really Big.)
Round 6: VS "Nyarlathotep" (Old One Wizard with Star-Struck Power)
Round 7: VS "Frieza" (Yep, the DBZ villain. First One Fighter)
Round 8: VS "Vin Diesel" (Stage 1 Demiurge Bard with Perform: [Peter-Panda Dance])
Round 9: VS "Mr. T" (Stage 2 Demiurge Cleric)
Round 10: VS "Chuck Norris" (Stage 3 Demiurge Monk, probably with Transversal so he can use Whirlwind Attack to roundhouse kick everyone)
Round 12: VS "Pun-Pun the Kobold" (Timelord Sorcerer)
Round 13: Me VS the lawyers for all the Copyright and Trademark infringements I make during the course of the game. [/sblock]
If anyone has any comments...

 

[Rockhoward56]

It's very interesting to see how the mechanicals works!
your deity list is very funny! Mr T as a demiurge cleric lol!!!

However on a more "serious" subjets , how will works the gusting effects?
for the effects(in general) i propose this: Uncanny effect works like the perfect effect but you maximum damage!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello to you too.

Howdy!

apologies for the slow response.

That's much more handy. It seems a handy solution to simply spamming Quickened Save-or-Die spells with your AMC in the first round of combat until the opponent gets bad roll. (Which ended quite a few of the IH-level combats I've participated in.)

Interesting. Of course save or die spells are ultimately absolutes and therefore broken, there is probably no easy way to reverse the situation, other than turning everything into a non-absolute.

I figured that all the higher level non-adventuring characters out there represent the exceptional figures who are remembered centuries later for their achievements, and so managed to accrue non-combat XP faster than their peers. The equivalents of JS Bach, William Shakespeare, Leonardo da Vinci, or Alexander the Great. Such figures are rare enough that the attrition that characters over the level limit for their age would be equivalent to someone with that kind of potential, but lacking any of the big breaks that allowed them to realise it, resulting in relative obscurity.

Well its possible that a high Int bonus (for example) might allow faster levelling.

I mean if a wizard locks himself away in a tower and studies magic for twenty years , he doesn't actually get an experience in D&D.

Unless you have a kind DM that is.

It also avoids the dangerous area of adventuring dragons. A megayear-old Adamic dragon could have acquired piles and piles of HD over what its age would suggest it should have, and they're certainly intelligent enough to know where to look for appropriate things to do, unless they get into combat against worthy foes extremely infrequently.

Unlikely they would find too many beings to play with that would grant them actual experience points.

The system works as it is, and I suppose that the inconsistencies with logic can be chalked up to the same screwy physics that allow one to walk on clouds just by being really, really good at balancing on stuff.

The supernatural screws with physics, but thats just because we don't understand it yet.

*Anticipation*

The random highest rank ability seems the more workable, because calculating the effects of losing one's best ability score seems rather time consuming if you have to go through all the attendent knock-on effects. One has to go through all of the feats/abilities and note which ones they no longer qualify for, and then do the same for spells, skills and suchlike, and then possibly another layer of calculation if someone no longer qualifies for one of their PrCs. Since Abrogate is one of the better Cosmic abilities, I anticipate this happening a lot.

Whichever works best for you. But I wouldn't bother reconfiguring feats and spells and so forth, it only nullifies that ability when dealing with you - not the opponent.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Ltheb mate!

Cool idea. If you get stuck, feel free to use Alabaster in the Tournament in place of the Greater God. I am interested to see how he fares.

I'll also try and sharpen up Galactus for you over the next week or so and you can use him too...if thats any help.

I should probably get round to a Lady of Pain or a Sin Shenron, just for fun.

Might also be an idea to take to the WotC character Optimization boards once everythings in place. Those guys know their stuff.

 

[Alzrius]

I should probably get round to a Lady of Pain or a Sin Shenron, just for fun.

"Sin Shenron"? Is that supposed to be Ishenron (aka Omega Shenron), the final enemy from Dragonball GT?

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Hi Ltheb mate!

Cool idea. If you get stuck, feel free to use Alabaster in the Tournament in place of the Greater God. I am interested to see how he fares.

I'll also try and sharpen up Galactus for you over the next week or so and you can use him too...if thats any help.

I should probably get round to a Lady of Pain or a Sin Shenron, just for fun.

Might also be an idea to take to the WotC character Optimization boards once everythings in place. Those guys know their stuff.

Heh, thanks. I was thinking about using Alabastor. (He is the obvious choice) I don't know how far they will get, so I tried to put the funny/silly stuff up front, and just repeat after about 3-5 tiers.

And don't mess with Mr. T. His (Transcendant?) Infinite Amulets power combined with Malcalypse means he can wear dozens of cursed amulets! (One will be a periapt of Con minus alot, the rest are probably dozens of Necklaces of Strangulation)

Galactus may well be my basis for Unicron. His tactic: Grapple and eat you. He will be as big as most planets (I hope I can mathematically pull this off) so that's pretty much the only way he can win. (Or by shooting lasers out of his eyes or something.)

And yes, throwing together something around Demiurge+ level is fun, just because you have enough resources to make 'em the best at whatever it does. And you have a large variety of powers so that simply thinking of a Deity concept immediatly springs to mind a dozen or so builds or strategies.

And I know allready what the CharOp board would say: Total (All Attributes), Telluric Astro/Omega [Storm], Heavenly(and all other applicable versions) Mind/Body/Soul and Cursed&Daunting Mind/Body/Soul, and all the powers that grant extra actions. (I know, I threw together a Highlord that used all that, but with a Telluric Vexing Storm instead. It could penalize you so badly that your atoms could just spontaneously fail! We are talking minus 3000 here!)

I don't think my players are ready for such killing (or crippling) machines as this, so I won't use mega-gimmics like the above "Penalizer" but If the deity does have a tactical theme, I think it would be best (for fairness to the players) that the theme not be overpowering.

And keep in mind I have about 2 (or more if CH 4 isn't finished) weeks to throw together a dozen deities. (and since I threw together overly elaborate High Lords in about 2 hours time, I think I can generate all the foes I need) And yes, U_K, your system is pretty easy to use even at that level.

Did you design the Immortal's Character Sheets yet? Because I have just been using a modified version of the New NPC statblock, Using a table in MS Word with sections beneath Feats for Divine, Cosmic Transient, and Omnific abilities, and subsections for power granted by items if necessary, to do all this. It doesn't look half bad. (Except the AC section, which generally looks clunky at those levels)