Intensify Spell is an Epic WASTE!!!!

[DeBhaal]

HEL Pit Fiend, your wrong....

Enhance Spell sets the spells Base Damage to the new Cap. For any Damage Dealing spell you have, that deals a number of dice of damage equal to your caster level increases by 10.
That is then the Spell Base, so if you Empower it, it will then be 30d6.

 

[HEL Pit Fiend]

Enhance Spell sets the spells Base Damage to the new Cap. For any Damage Dealing spell you have, that deals a number of dice of damage equal to your caster level increases by 10.
That is then the Spell Base, so if you Empower it, it will then be 30d6.

Lets say that you are correct, which I'm not sure you are. Enhance spell wins over Empower ONLY on spells of LESS than 15 dice, and then only by small amounts.

example 1:
---fireball 10d6
---enhance +10d6 (new base 20d6)
---empower +10d6
that = 30d6
triple stacked empower = 10d6 x 2.5 = 25d6

30d6 vs 25d6
empower loses


example 2:
---cone of cold 15d6
---enhanced +10d6 (new base 25d6)
---empower +12.5d6
that = 37.5d6
triple stacked empower = 15d6 x 2.5 = 37.5d6

37.5d6 vs 37.5d6
empower ties


example 3:
---chain lightning 20d6
---enhanced +10d6 (new base 30d6)
---empower +15d6
that = 45d6
triple stacked empower = 20d6 x 2.5 = 50d6

45d6 vs 50d6
empower wins


example 4:
---horrid wilting 25d8
---enhanced +10d8 (new base 35d8)
---empower +17.5d8
that = 52.5d8
triple stacked empower = 25d8 x 2.5 = 62.5d8

52.5d8 vs 62.5d8
empower wins

Also note, for all those spells to get maximum effect of Enhance Spell feat your level must equal the dice of damage. For example, for horrid wilting you must be 35th level, whereas for triple empowering you can be as low as 25th.

I still put my money on Empower

 

[Shard O'Glase]

If there is even a debate on where you should put your money enhance or empower then enhance is poorly written. Enahnce is I'm guessing an epic feat since it is out of the epic book. There shouldn't be an epic feat in the game that you say gee it's about balanced with a similar non epic feat.

 

[HEL Pit Fiend]

If there is even a debate on where you should put your money enhance or empower then enhance is poorly written. Enahnce is I'm guessing an epic feat since it is out of the epic book. There shouldn't be an epic feat in the game that you say gee it's about balanced with a similar non epic feat.

The problem is NOT with the Epic Enhanced Spell feat, the problem is with STACKING Empower on top of Empower on top of Empower....

Like I said, our group has wizards and DMs (thats me) who have been allowing this, to get everyone to change now is.... well, I'd have a better chance of parting the Red Sea.

 

[Crothian]

well, I'd have a better chance of parting the Red Sea.

Well, that's just an Epic Spell. I wanted to build the spell, but I couldn't find a seed that seems to fit.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

The problem is NOT with the Epic Enhanced Spell feat, the problem is with STACKING Empower on top of Empower on top of Empower....

Like I said, our group has wizards and DMs (thats me) who have been allowing this, to get everyone to change now is.... well, I'd have a better chance of parting the Red Sea.

I think the problem is with epic enhace spell. I've allowed multiple empowers as per the rules, and it hasn't unbalnced my game.(heck I love it making damage more tempting is a good thing, I much rather have lot's o dice damage spells to save or die spells, especially considering I roll in front of the gorup so no fudging mr. bad's saves) It might be unbalanced in the epic rules with that improved metamagic and empower at +1 level now thing, but honestly considering what other classes can dish out damage wise I'm not too concerned with the epic style damage a spellcaster might dish out with empower and the epic improved metamagic ability/feat.

 

[HEL Pit Fiend]

Well, that's just an Epic Spell. I wanted to build the spell, but I couldn't find a seed that seems to fit.

LOL, good 1. Hey check out the Animate seed, I think thats the one.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Well, that's just an Epic Spell. I wanted to build the spell, but I couldn't find a seed that seems to fit.

LOL
if I'm gathering this seed thing right from the posts wouldn't lower water work as a seed.


Though not to start the epic spell debate again but at best I'd put a part a sea spell as a 9th level spell, cool and all but not epic enough to qualify for a 10th level spell.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

LOL, good 1. Hey check out the Animate seed, I think thats the one.

ok so I don't get seeds, anyone want to give a quick sum up without to much of a digression from this thread.

 

[HEL Pit Fiend]

I think the problem is with epic enhace spell.

The same problem exists with the epic Intensify Spell feat, (read the first post).

I've allowed multiple empowers as per the rules, and it hasn't unbalnced my game.

So have I, no imbalance here, but none of our wizards (once they have gotten educated about Empower), have bothered to take ANY of the other metamagic damage increasing feats, theres simply no need.