D&D 5E Is 5E Special

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Yes but the players were the kids.

So the "5e was perfectly designed for their audience" statement is false. Because the older people who filled out the survey dropped the game.. The younger people who filled out the survey play (and mostly DM) for who weren't into D&D during the playtest who outnumber them.
Lol what?

The older players didn’t drop the game, the game got so many new players over time that the older players were eventually outnumbered. The game didn’t lose any significant number of older players.

5e succeeded early on because it worked really well for experienced players. It continues to succeed and grow dramatically, because it also works very well for the new players that have come to outnumber all other demographics. 🤷‍♂️
 

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Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Really?
40% is outnumbering 60%?
Who dropped the game and who filled out what?

I am still totally lost trying to follow your reasoning it seems. As it makes no sense to me.
The data also said only 11% where over 40. Meaning that there are not that many 5e players who played traditional D&D during their youth.

Therefore the traditionalist focus of 5e was laid and targeted primarily on people who likely did not experience those traditions or not by choice. 5e was designed for a different demographic makeup than the one it got.

Lol what?

The older players didn’t drop the game, the game got so many new players over time that the older players were eventually outnumbered. The game didn’t lose any significant number of older players.

5e succeeded early on because it worked really well for experienced players. It continues to succeed and grow dramatically, because it also works very well for the new players that have come to outnumber all other demographics. 🤷‍♂️

The tilt to tradition would make even less sense if the older players didn't drop. That mean the initial base is even larger and even more people who didn't participate in the playtest joined the hobby afterwards. The DMG should have been a whole lot more newbie friendly and had a lot more guidance and examples of how to play.
 
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Parmandur

Book-Friend
The data also said only 11% where over 40. Meaning that there are not that many 5e players who played traditional D&D during their youth.

Therefore the traditionalist focus of 5e was lain and targeted primarily on people who likely did not experience those traditions or not by choice. 5e was design for a different demographic makeup than the one it got.



The tilt to tradition would make even less sense if the older players didn't drop. That mean the initial base is even larger and even more people who didn't participate in the playtest joined the hobby afterwards. The DMG should have been a whole lot more newbie friendly and had a lot more guidance and examples of how to play.
Dude...

11% of 50 million is 5.5 million. It not that any significant group of older players dropped the game, it's that it has just exploded that much that 5.5 million us a small portion of the playerbase. That's what happens when the focus of design is on making a game that is accessible and pleasing, you get both the old and the young involved.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
And to put that 5.5 Million number in perspective...WotC rigorous, published market research from the end of the 90's found that 5.5 Million people had ever played any sort of tabletope RPG, and Ben Riggs recently estimated about 4 million people.pkayed BD&D and AD&D. So, 5E's older player audience is larger than TSR era at it's peak.
 

Lazvon

Adventurer
Yes, I’m enjoying running 5e for 6-11 year olds and my spouse. I personally am in the 50+ bracket , spouse nearly 50, and I started playing in around ‘84 if I recall correctly, think they started in late 80s or early 90s. I also enjoying playing in the game the 11 year is running… though I certainly expect it to be a 11 year old’s game… and it is Dragon’s Hoard to boot (had to read a bit of it to make sure he wasn’t making it up… wow, just wow).

5e is a fine system as far as I am concerned and I am enjoying the heck out of it. Is it 1e, 2e, or 3/3.5e that I have also enjoyed? Nope. But those weren’t ICE’s Rolemaster either and that never stopped me from playing those.

Yes, seems to be special in that veterans and newcomers can both enjoy it.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Dude...

11% of 50 million is 5.5 million. It not that any significant group of older players dropped the game, it's that it has just exploded that much that 5.5 million us a small portion of the playerbase. That's what happens when the focus of design is on making a game that is accessible and pleasing, you get both the old and the young involved.

I think you are missing what I'm saying.

New players don't stay new forever.


5e is accessible but it didn't target what the new players it attracted wanted directly. It targeted primarily older fans in style.

Therefore once the huge influx of new players got used to 5e, they would find that the style of the core game does match their desires.


What kept them from dropping 5e once they gained experience and realized this was the whole environment around 5e that kept them engaged with it and kept competitors from cropping up.
 


I think you are missing what I'm saying.

New players don't stay new forever.


5e is accessible but it didn't target what the new players it attracted wanted directly. It targeted primarily older fans in style.

Therefore once the huge influx of new players got used to 5e, they would find that the style of the core game does match their desires.


What kept them from dropping 5e once they gained experience and realized this was the whole environment around 5e that kept them engaged with it and kept competitors from cropping up.

Can you show me your survey results and the demographic of your samle?
 


Parmandur

Book-Friend
I think you are missing what I'm saying.

New players don't stay new forever.


5e is accessible but it didn't target what the new players it attracted wanted directly. It targeted primarily older fans in style.

Therefore once the huge influx of new players got used to 5e, they would find that the style of the core game does match their desires.


What kept them from dropping 5e once they gained experience and realized this was the whole environment around 5e that kept them engaged with it and kept competitors from cropping up.
You said that older players had left the game, which they have not. WotC is additionally assiduous about keeping up with modern fantasy trends (See also, the more popular than ever Magic the Gathering). By focusing on creating an accessible and light system, and following thematic trends (Strixhaven, Witchlight, et.) they get to have their cake and eat it, too, by appealing to the young and old simultaneously.
 

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