Is Aegis of Assault the worst mark?

[WalterKovacs]

On the other hand, swordmages DO have powers that allow them to teleport in when triggered and unleash a larger hit of damage than a basic attack or the warden's pull.

The ability to be automaticly flanking and striking at the same time -no matter where you were before- IS not something to be ignored, fighters don't get an automagic +2 to hit with their CC. That's an advantage that is -strictly- a Swordmage's. And if they aren't flanking, they just teleported beside a ranged attacker, and that is its own flavor of delicious.

I was only noting that marking the enemy any other way (such as with the bard's misdirected mark) wouldn't actually do anything for the swordmage since only creatures marked by the Aegis will work with the Aegis.

I agree the Aegis is useful (in fact, as a rogue partnered with one, I would deliberately provoke OAs to get the Swordmage over to give me a flank.)

 

[killbydeath]

The fighter's good at preventing movement, but the Shielding Swordmage basically entirely hoses one creature, without a save.

-O

I haven't seen the shielding swordmage in play, but I think it is simply better than the assault swordmage. The teleport 10 square thing is appealing but after player it, you better get the cut dmg from that enemy.

 

[KarinsDad]

On the other hand, swordmages DO have powers that allow them to teleport in when triggered and unleash a larger hit of damage than a basic attack or the warden's pull.

The ability to be automaticly flanking and striking at the same time -no matter where you were before- IS not something to be ignored, fighters don't get an automagic +2 to hit with their CC. That's an advantage that is -strictly- a Swordmage's. And if they aren't flanking, they just teleported beside a ranged attacker, and that is its own flavor of delicious.

The teleport is not always to a flanking square. Teleport is limited to line of sight and either the flanking square is out of sight or the flanking square does not exist (i.e. a wall is there or something).

This can happen quite often, especially if the ally being attacked is trying to stay near cover.

 

[Fedifensor]

I haven't been impressed with the Aegis of Assault. When I've teamed up with Assault Swordmages, the best they can do is get the target to attack them instead of someone else. Unless they're really tweaked out for damage (which means a 2H weapon, and less AC), the melee basic attack is little more than an inconvenience on many of the foes worth marking (elites and solos). Furthermore, as the Aegis of Assault offers an attack that requires a to hit roll, the swordmage misses and does no damage about half the time.

At the same time, I've seen a shielding swordmage mark and use Total Defense, giving the marked target the choice of attacking a very tough target, or taking a -2 to hit and a large penalty to damage against a weaker target. That's a pretty large contribution for playing defensive. If the shielding swordmage knows how to play his character well, his mark is very powerful.

 

[sfedi]

Aegis of Assault is what the Paladin's Challenge was before it was fixed

"Mark and then Run away" was wrong for Paladins, but ok for Swordmages

How's that? I can´t find anything on the D&D Updates (a.k.a. erratas)

 

[Herschel]

The Assault Swordmage is really good, in the right hands. It's "tougher" to play well as it isn't as straight forward as a fighter or even a Shielding version, but it is really good when done right, just different. This includes having fellow players that understand what you are doing also.

Understanding the other PC abilities and how they can interact with yours is VERY important in 4E.

 

[WalterKovacs]

How's that? I can´t find anything on the D&D Updates (a.k.a. erratas)

It was before the PHB went to print. I think it may have been in the pregens for Keep on the Shadowfell, and was definitely part of the original pregens that were played at the DND XP (I think that was the event). The wording in the PHB existed because originally the Paladin was able to mark a target and basically avoid the marked foe, forcing it to either not attack anyone, or take damage.

 

[Obryn]

At the same time, I've seen a shielding swordmage mark and use Total Defense, giving the marked target the choice of attacking a very tough target, or taking a -2 to hit and a large penalty to damage against a weaker target. That's a pretty large contribution for playing defensive. If the shielding swordmage knows how to play his character well, his mark is very powerful.

Ouch! I'm glad that total defense idea hasn't occurred to my party's Swordmage yet. Even without that, it's a pain in the ass to hit him with anything. Swordmages have one of the highest ACs in the game.

He's got a 27 at level 8. I don't even want to ponder a 29.

-O

 

[Starfox]

WalterKovacks, the point you make about what Misdirected Mark can do is very much under dispute. See this thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-rules/253037-misdirected-mark-defenders.html

I would have quoted you, but for some reason the board won't let me use quote.

 

[DracoSuave]

I haven't been impressed with the Aegis of Assault. When I've teamed up with Assault Swordmages, the best they can do is get the target to attack them instead of someone else. Unless they're really tweaked out for damage (which means a 2H weapon, and less AC), the melee basic attack is little more than an inconvenience on many of the foes worth marking (elites and solos). Furthermore, as the Aegis of Assault offers an attack that requires a to hit roll, the swordmage misses and does no damage about half the time.

1) Extra attacks are extra attacks. Fighters use the -exact same- parameters, but don't have the advantage of range. Yet Fighters are good and Swordmages are bad?

2) That extra attack can sometimes be a power. Some Swordmage powers are -designed- to be used with Aegis of Assault. The AoA's power is not contained solely in the description of the feature.

3) That basic attack can often be done from flanking. Where you gonna teleport? You -could- teleport beside your friend, or you could teleport in flanking position like a good gentleman. +2 to hit is -always- good.

4) Escalating Assault. That elite won't be ignoring your free damage for long once it gets to +3 to hit from a feat, +2 to hit from flanking... all that adds up.

5) Intellegent Blademaster[/b]Melee Training makes your attack as effective as a fighter's basic.

6) If wielding a two-handed weapon is viable for a fighter, it's viable for a swordmage. It's only a 2-AC difference for a swordmage. Ironicly, that's the same difference as two-hand-fighter vs. Sword-and-board. It's -almost- as if that were by design.


A lot of the swordmage-sucks arguments don't factor in the fact their punishment is -more effective- than a fighter's. In the right hands, Assault Swordmages are -nasty-. IMHO, Assault Swamis should be going for two-handers to make their marks punish HARD.