Is Scorching Ray Too Good?

[Olorin]

My 14th level wizard finds a maximized Scorching Ray to be quite nice.

Useful when you don't want to use the big stuff to take out some lower powered foes.

But I know that's not really the point of this thread.

 

[RigaMortus]

(Even though the sneak attack damage is only on the first ray.)

Are you sure this is correct? Is there a rule written somewhere that states it only applies to the first ray?

Usually a spell or effect (such as that from a feat) states in the description that you only apply precision based damage (like sneak attack) to the first shot (or ray) fired. An example of this is Manyshot.

However, if you look at the text of Greater Manyshot, it specifically states that the precision based damage is applied to each arrow, even if they all target the same opponent. You also make an attack roll for each arrow, regardless if you aim at the same target or not.

Scorching ray is just like Greater Manyshot. You can choose to shoot all the rays at one target, or split them up to multiple targets. You do an attack roll for each one. It doesn't specifically state that you do not apply precision based to only one ray though.

Anyway, I'd really like to see the rule that states when you can and can't apply precision based damage. For my own peace of mind here, heh.

 

[Thanee]

Yes, Sneak Attack only applies once per attack.

Scorching Ray is one attack, but it requires three attack rolls (at maximum effect).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Kyrail]

?

4d6 avg 14 damage.. even a 2nd level mage with no con bonus has 6hp.. so if the ray hits it probably wont kill this walking dead man anyway Plus it has to hit, not exactly a incredible chance there either, probably near 50/50. Any combatant at this point will have at least 14hp (d8 hd, 14 con = 16 hp avg)

Doesnt seem horribly out of line.. at low levels someone 2 levels above you can kill you rapidly at these levels, but they are pretty extreme examples where it occurs easily.

Yeah I put it back in. I misread the spell that you get 1 extra ray/4 levels, where it's actually 1 extra ray per 4 levels after level 3. I thought you got 2 rays at level 4.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Where is greater manyshot? Never heard of it, sure isn't core. Or is it an epic feat?

 

[RigaMortus]

Yes, Sneak Attack only applies once per attack.

Scorching Ray is one attack, but it requires three attack rolls (at maximum effect).

Bye
Thanee

Not that I don't believe you or anything but what page is it on in the PHB that states this?

If I cast Scorching Ray at three seperate targets, I am casting one spell, but attacking three seperate targets, am I not? Am I only attacking 1 target, even though I am shooting a total of 3? Can you (or do you) declare which target you are officially "attacking"?

 

[RigaMortus]

Where is greater manyshot? Never heard of it, sure isn't core. Or is it an epic feat?

It is a General Feat in the Expanded Psionics Handbook. No it is not core, but it is 3.5.

 

[Thanee]

Yes, you are attacking three targets, but with the same attack.

If you cast fireball, that is also a single attack, but you are attacking a lot of targets at once. Of course, you cannot sneak attack with a fireball, just an example to show the difference between attack and attacking here.

It's the same with Manyshot. One attack, multiple targets. Greater Manyshot is one of the few (the only?) exception to the general rule, that you cannot apply precision based damage more than once per attack.

It's in the FAQ somewhere.

Bye
Thanee

 

[RigaMortus]

Yes, you are attacking three targets, but with the same attack.

If you cast fireball, that is also a single attack, but are attacking a lot of targets at once. Of course, you cannot sneak attack with a fireball, just an example to show the difference between attack and attacking here.

It's in the FAQ somewhere.

Bye
Thanee

This is true, but Fireball is not subject to sneak attack because you don't make any attack rolls. Same thing with Magic Missile. You can fire multiple missiles at multiple targets, but you do not apply sneak attack because no attack roll is made.

Another qualifying factor is critical hits (as they are precision based, I believe). If I hit 3 seperate targets with Scorching Ray and I somehow crit on all of them, is my damage not doubled for each one?

If the answer is YES, then why is extra sneak attack damage not added to each ray? Especially if I am hitting seperate targets and can reach/target their vital spots?

From the PHB Glossary:

critical hit (crit): A hit that that strikes a vital area and therefore deals double damage or more. To score a critical hit, an attacker must first score a threat (usually a natural 20 on an attack roll) and then succeed on a critical roll (just like another attack roll)...

PHB page 50:

Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. Basically the rogue's attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC...

I can't seem to find anything in the DMG that explains what "precision based" damage is, or anything of relevance in regards to critical hits, and nothing on sneak attacks.

 

[Thanee]

You can crit on every attack roll, a critical hit would not count as "precision based" damage. That's damage, which is simply added to a damage roll, but requires some sort of precision (usually that damage only applies within 30' for ranged attacks, like sneak attack or weapon specialization).

Bye
Thanee