Is WotC's policy of no 4.5 good or bad?

[DEFCON 1]

I meant to draw new players in. I don't see a player new to the game being drawn in by a book that is just a reprint of rules. The book would be too dry.

For existing players, certainly, a reprint of the rules could work. A player new to the game needs a current Player's Handbook in my opinion as though it covers rules, it has expanded explanation/fluff/background to help get a new player into the game.

This is what Essentials is for, and why all their material is paperback as well. They keep Essentials and the Red Box on the Barnes & Noble / Borders / Amazon shelves in order to draw people to the game. Once they start playing, they'll come to one of three conclusions:

1) They don't like it, and stop playing
2) They like the Essentials game fine as-is and just play that.
3) They enjoy it to the point where they want to play more of it, so they join D&D Insider to get all the extra stuff. This is basically the equivalent of joining X-Box Live, or buying video game DLC, or pay for a full MMO subscription.

And if the rules ever evolve or change far enough along the line... it's much easier / affordable to reprint the paperback Essentials Player's books or Rules book with all the updated material. And we'd be less prone to have people complain about needing to "rebuy" the books, since by that point the books would be meant purely for new players.

 

[Jack99]

I meant to draw new players in. I don't see a player new to the game being drawn in by a book that is just a reprint of rules. The book would be too dry.

For existing players, certainly, a reprint of the rules could work. A player new to the game needs a current Player's Handbook in my opinion as though it covers rules, it has expanded explanation/fluff/background to help get a new player into the game.

New players start with the Red Box, or at least, that's the plan.

Besides, it has been stated multiple times that the Essentials are supposedly Evergreens, ie they will be in print forever. Which means that Heroes 1+2 will be available and so will the Rules Compendium. Between them, new players should have everything they need, reprints or not.

 

[IronWolf]

This is what Essentials is for, and why all their material is paperback as well. They keep Essentials and the Red Box on the Barnes & Noble / Borders / Amazon shelves in order to draw people to the game. Once they start playing, they'll come to one of three conclusions:

As the Red Box and Essentials becomes the only books on the shelves at the big stores it will sort of become the new edition at that point. Which was what drove my comment that the new edition likely won't be hardbacks.

And if the rules ever evolve or change far enough along the line... it's much easier / affordable to reprint the paperback Essentials Player's books or Rules book with all the updated material. And we'd be less prone to have people complain about needing to "rebuy" the books, since by that point the books would be meant purely for new players.

You are right, quite likely why moving to the paperbacks is advantageous as it allows more affordable reprinting and a likely indicator that this is they way things are going. But to me this means Essentials has become the "new edition" of D&D. And I don't mean that in a bad way, this model may work great for them.

I admit I get wary of only being able to play this game if the rules and fluff are locked up in DDI and that's why I like to see books printed and out there.

I think I just misunderstood your earlier post. My thought was simply that Wizards needs to keep books that are more than just the rules compendium and a boxed set that goes from levels 1 to 3 in order to draw new people to the game and keep them playing.

 

[ferratus]

I literally hate people who are buying a lot of the physical books. It is a burning enmity that I carry always in my mind, vowing retribution with every breath.

For one thing, they are a multitude, and thus they skew the product sales towards rules. The so-called crunchy bits. With the advent of DDI and the character builder, why do you need books on rules? Rules for new powers, feats, and paragon paths are only important when you go to create or level-up a new character.

Why not read something interesting, like new adventure modules or adventure theme books (Underdark, Plane Below etc.)? Why not purchase things that are fun, like miniatures and interlocking terrain tiles? Even if you play D&D every week, you are only going to get a chance to play 20 characters or so before 5e. So why worry about every possible rules permutation you can make playing a fighter? Worry about the rules when you make a character, and ignore it the rest of the time.

If people did what I do, and just let DDI take care of the rules updates for you, you could have the necessary changes and errata occur as the game goes along. 95% of the time you wouldn't even notice, and we could clean up the rules that aren't working properly.

 

[DEFCON 1]

You are right, quite likely why moving to the paperbacks is advantageous as it allows more affordable reprinting and a likely indicator that this is they way things are going. But to me this means Essentials has become the "new edition" of D&D. And I don't mean that in a bad way, this model may work great for them.

Yup... except that I think the concept of "edition" will just become a term of the past. After all, when WoW releases patches, are they new "edition" of the game? Nope, just an evolution of the rules. Even their expansion sets aren't "editions". But if you look at the spells/talents/core concepts of their game now compared to what it was when it was first released? You'd think it was a completely new game. But no one cares, because it all occurs in and around their monthly subscription to play the game anyway. (It's also why Blizzard made the brilliant decision to update everything in Cataclysm while still keeping it the base game, rather than make the mistake of creating World of Warcraft II. Because that just splinters the fanbase and both end up suffering (like I think is what happened with EverQuest I & II)

I think I just misunderstood your earlier post. My thought was simply that Wizards needs to keep books that are more than just the rules compendium and a boxed set that goes from levels 1 to 3 in order to draw new people to the game and keep them playing.

Perhaps. But I think this is also where they could continue to produce fluff books in hardcover like the Dragonomicons, or Open Grave, or Manual of the Planes or the campaign settings, where the fluff doesn't have to be worried about being 'updated' per se, as the rules are. So if needing other books on the shelves was important, they could certainly do that.

Although quite honestly... I really don't think they need to. I think we're progressing so quickly through electronic reader / pad computer formats that most (if not all) of the game information itself can and will be digital, even if the personal interaction of the gameplay is around a table. So as long as they have something on the shelve that a parent can buy and give to someone for a birthday, and which tells the kid that if they like the game, go online to www.wizards.com to join DDI for the full experience... that's all they'll need in the next few years.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I literally hate people who are buying a lot of the physical books. It is a burning enmity that I carry always in my mind, vowing retribution with every breath.

For one thing, they are a multitude, and thus they skew the product sales towards rules. The so-called crunchy bits. With the advent of DDI and the character builder, why do you need books on rules? Rules for new powers, feats, and paragon paths are only important when you go to create or level-up a new character.

Why not read something interesting, like new adventure modules or adventure theme books (Underdark, Plane Below etc.)? Why not purchase things that are fun, like miniatures and interlocking terrain tiles? Even if you play D&D every week, you are only going to get a chance to play 20 characters or so before 5e. So why worry about every possible rules permutation you can make playing a fighter? Worry about the rules when you make a character, and ignore it the rest of the time.

If people did what I do, and just let DDI take care of the rules updates for you, you could have the necessary changes and errata occur as the game goes along. 95% of the time you wouldn't even notice, and we could clean up the rules that aren't working properly.

Sounds great in theory. Does 4E have a SRD available to DDI subscribers? If so then I haven't found it yet.

I did ignore rules that we didn't need. Once we started needing them where were they? In a rules splatbook thats where.

 

[IronWolf]

Yup... except that I think the concept of "edition" will just become a term of the past. After all, when WoW releases patches, are they new "edition" of the game? Nope, just an evolution of the rules. Even their expansion sets aren't "editions". But if you look at the spells/talents/core concepts of their game now compared to what it was when it was first released? You'd think it was a completely new game. But no one cares, because it all occurs in and around their monthly subscription to play the game anyway.

Quite possible. It does seem things are being transitioned to this way of doing things with D&D. And frankly, if it helps put edition wars, arguing about whether something is or is not a revision that can be a good thing.

I am leery of a subscription based model though, so I hope at least for now some form of paper book is put out there. Perhaps my view will change as more things move to this model, but for now I like knowing if I have discretionary cash I can purchase a book or update my ruleset and be good to go without need to worry about a subscription fee.

Perhaps. But I think this is also where they could continue to produce fluff books in hardcover like the Dragonomicons, or Open Grave, or Manual of the Planes or the campaign settings, where the fluff doesn't have to be worried about being 'updated' per se, as the rules are. So if needing other books on the shelves was important, they could certainly do that.

Now this would be nice. Fluff books available for purchase that were less hung up on what ruleset was current, but one that meshed well with a morphing ruleset. That would definitely be cool.

 

[ferratus]

Sounds great in theory. Does 4E have a SRD available to DDI subscribers? If so then I haven't found it yet.

Yes, it is called "The Compendium". Type in the name of a power, feat, or rule and it comes right up.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Yes, it is called "The Compendium". Type in the name of a power, feat, or rule and it comes right up.

I searched there. Is there a decent rules index there? My search fu must suck because I couldn't find the basic rules that explain how beast companions & familiars work.

I could find all of the various companions & familiars and their stats but not the rules for them. If it's in there then it is not very intuitive to find. If not, then the Comp is not like a SRD at all.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Ok, did they say: no 4.5 revison, or did they say, no rules updates at all?

As I understood they said something like:
there will be no need for a 4.5 edition, because with the 1 PHB a year, we can update the rules in small chunks...

I could be misremembering, but that was what I understood.