Knocked prone

[jackston2]

Fortitude is a great idea for grappling and knocking prone: it represents pain tolerance. Wrestling!!!!

 

[frankthedm]

For the record: According to Keep on the Shadowfell:

And getting forced off a cliff is a saving throw, in which success puts you prone in the closest square to going over, and failure is... over you go.

Fitz

Now that is just about enough to get me to cancel my preorder. :\

 

[Jack99]

Now that is just about enough to get me to cancel my preorder. :\

You feel it should be auto-death?

 

[Keenath]

Standing is a move action that does NOT provoke Opp Attacks

This is key, and pretty much nerfs the 'trip monkey' without killing tripping as a decent strategy.

At the same time, there are a lot more ways to avoid falling over -- a high Fortitude automatically means you don't fall down easily, and there are a number of powers that allow you to avoid or recover from tripping. I believe one of the blogs mentioned a Rogue power a while back that allowed him to instantly recover his feet when he got tripped, for example, effectively negating the trip attack.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

This is key, and pretty much nerfs the 'trip monkey' without killing tripping as a decent strategy.

Now there's a 4E marketing strategy we haven't heard: "4E ... includes free Nerf Trip Monkey!"

And I'm OK with that. Undecided about the save for sliding off a cliff. It seems like if you get a save for that, you should also get a save for any other type of slide (or the option to fall prone in your square), but then that's a lot of saving going on. Besaides, doesn't that save violate the "end of round, save ends"-type design of new saving throws.

 

[Celebrim]

Or teeth or talons apparently. Most animals don't need a knife to cut a rope.

No, but they do need some sort of reasoning skills that allow them to imagine the effects of cutting a rope and then realize that this event obtains the goal of freshly killed adventurer.

 

[Rex Blunder]

Originally Posted by FitzTheRuke
For the record: According to Keep on the Shadowfell:

And getting forced off a cliff is a saving throw, in which success puts you prone in the closest square to going over, and failure is... over you go.

A saving throw or an attack on the reflex defense?

3e suggested giving a Reflex saving throw for falling off cliffs, I believe. Changing it to a coin flip is surprising.

 

[Kordeth]

A saving throw or an attack on the reflex defense?

3e suggested giving a Reflex saving throw for falling off cliffs, I believe. Changing it to a coin flip is surprising.

Bear in mind that's just to avoid being pushed into the "danger square." There are probably other rules for saving your bacon if thrown off a cliff--Athletics checks to catch yourself spring to mind, keeping with 3.5's "Catch yourself while falling" use of the Climb skill.

 

[Stalker0]

A saving throw or an attack on the reflex defense?

3e suggested giving a Reflex saving throw for falling off cliffs, I believe. Changing it to a coin flip is surprising.

The attack on your defense has already been made if they are pushing you over a cliff, as all forced movement we've seen so far requires some kind of attack roll against a defense (except for some dailies).

However, it does seem to illustrate once again that in 4e, terrain can be one of the most dangerous things adventurers will face.

 

[frankthedm]

You feel it should be auto-death?

The fact that is a save tells me it is rigged in the defenders favor regardless of the attacker's prowess. At least in the minis game the attacker has to roll a second successful attack, which accounts for the attacker's skill and the defender's defences. A Save is a minimum 55% chance of defender success before modifications.

That it is a save means that trying to force a solo monster over any edge is very likely to fail .

The part that really bugs me is that the save puts the defender on the ground rather than hanging onto the edge.