D&D 5E Lightning Bolt should be better.

[Ruin Explorer]

Cool. I was replying to someone complaining that Druids aren't useful in dungeons, and trying to point out that taking a specialty class and then complaining about its weakness is a bit much.

I'm not sure 5E has any classes that specialized. In general 5E base classes which have specialized elements make them "nice-to-have" rather than core features. Ranger without Tashas is about the most specialized I can think of.

Some archetypes kind of are, and it's notable that non-casters are much more likely to suffer here. I can't think of a caster archetype, off-hand, which sacrifices a ton for some specialized abilities which might not see use because of the adventure location or the like (maybe some other kind of Druid?), but I can think of, for example, the Assassin Rogue, who is not great at the best of times, and who has subclass abilities focused around infiltration/disguise which could easily not get used, and even if they do get used are not likely to be particularly great.

 

[wicked cool]

Errrrrr... I play a Druid in one of my campaigns and the idea that I'm "poor indoors or underground" on him is pretty bizarre. He's one of the most powerful PCs. Most of the best Druid spells don't rely on being outdoors. Maybe it's just LFQW or I'm good at picking spells but I actually prefer indoors/dungeons because smaller rooms and more choke points and corridors where people can't go around stuff actually make a lot of Druid spells more powerful.

Can I ask what those are?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Can I ask what those are?

Sure - any kind of summon is more useful in a confined space, as is stuff like Entangle, AoE spells are almost always better because enemies tend to be forced into smaller spaces thus more get hit, Goodberry is broken OP wherever you are, Faerie Fire good wherever you are, I'm actually struggling to think of any Druid spells which aren't useful indoors/underground. Transport via Plants maybe? Plant Growth depending on how your DM interprets it maybe?

 

[wicked cool]

Sure - any kind of summon is more useful in a confined space, as is stuff like Entangle, AoE spells are almost always better because enemies tend to be forced into smaller spaces thus more get hit, Goodberry is broken OP wherever you are, Faerie Fire good wherever you are, I'm actually struggling to think of any Druid spells which aren't useful indoors/underground. Transport via Plants maybe? Plant Growth depending on how your DM interprets it maybe?

in a dungeon those low level summons are very weak? Goodberry great as a healing ability which has to be ingested

out of the major basic players handbook I find druids weaker compared to their counterparts

Back on topic lightning bolt and other spells like cloudkill are weak. someone on this site did a chart of which spells a wizard should take (gold best, another color really bad). The are so mnay spells that are terrible choices vs other spells

fireball vs lighnting bolt. Fireball is a superior spell

 

[Ruin Explorer]

in a dungeon those low level summons are very weak?

On what planet ROFL? They're OP.

out of the major basic players handbook I find druids weaker compared to their counterparts

Purely PHB, weaker than Clerics? I don't think so mate.

 

[TwoSix]

in a dungeon those low level summons are very weak?

I'm not sure how being in a dungeon would make summons weaker. If anything, their ability to fill up more of the available space makes them better in their primary role as meat shield.

out of the major basic players handbook I find druids weaker compared to their counterparts

I'm not seeing it; they obviously scale up poorly with at-will damage going into higher tiers, but cleric has a similar problem. And they should be predominantly relying on spells at that point in the game.

Druid's only real "flaw" is that they MC poorly, you can't get dip synergy like you can with a lot of the other power choices.

 

[Mort]

out of the major basic players handbook I find druids weaker compared to their counterparts

Then your going counter to just about every analysis out there, which rank druids at top tier.

Moon druids, particularly, at the levels that see the most play (bellow 10) are easily at our near the top of the ladder, combat while shape is just that good at low - mid level.

Edit : I've seen a moon druid played through 7th level, they are very strong.

 

[jgsugden]

...Purely PHB, weaker than Clerics? I don't think so mate.

From what you say, it sounds like you're not playing a moon druid (as you're focused on the spellcasting). I have not found many that think any other druid really compares to a Twilight, Forge, Light (I don't agree on this one, but many really like it), Tempest, Order or War cleric in power levels, especially at low to medium levels.

What druid subclass build do you think surpasses those?

 

[tetrasodium]

Then your going counter to just about every analysis out there, which rank druids at top tier.

Moon druids, particularly, at the levels that see the most play (bellow 10) are easily at our near the top of the ladder, combat while shape is just that good at low - mid level.

Edit : I've seen a moon druid played through 7th level, they are very strong.

in all honesty it's not really fair to include moon druids alongide the other druids as the same clas. Technically it's true & I agree moon druids are great, but the similarity largely ends at saying these words at the start of each day after a long rest "I cast goodberry & hand them out to the group [like so]"

 

[Mort]

in all honesty it's not really fair to include moon druids alongide the other druids as the same clas. Technically it's true & I agree moon druids are great, but the similarity largely ends at saying these words at the start of each day after a long rest "I cast goodberry & hand them out to the group [like so]"

Well they still get the same spell list as base druids. But I certainly see what you mean - they are a step above at low levels, and they play very differently (than other druids) .

That said, other druids are pretty great too, full casters with many other perks. When compared to other classes I can't see them as anything resembling weak.