D&D 5E Lightning Bolt should be better.

[Ralif Redhammer]

Correct, I was talking about the 1e iterations, which I could have made clearer in my original post.

Not in 5E, they don't (which is what the thread is tagged with). Not these spells in particular, nor lines and spheres in general.

 

[Zardnaar]

Well, Aganazzar's Scorcher (how did your Light Domain cleric get this spell, house rule?) is a crap spell, little better than Burning Hands, because of the short range. Light Domain is not a domain for the cleric who wants to mix it up in melee, since they don't get heavy armor.

The difference in AC is one point.

The light cleric wants to melee IMHO. Radiance if the dawn+ spiritual weapon is fun. And spiritual guardian. Instead of using weapons you use cantrips and look you get potent cantrip as well.

Iusibg weapons as a cleric in melee is a bit of a mugs game unless you have high ability scores.

 

[carmachu]

In at least one older edition, you could choose between a single bolt (5 feet by 80) and a forked bolt (10 by 40). That might improve it significantly.

And didn't it also bounce or reflect off stone walls as well? I swear that was a thing back in 1at or 2nd. Throw the bolt, have it hit the stone wall and come back, effectively hitting twice

 

[auburn2]

The difference in AC is one point.

The light cleric wants to melee IMHO. Radiance if the dawn+ spiritual weapon is fun. And spiritual guardian. Instead of using weapons you use cantrips and look you get potent cantrip as well.

Iusibg weapons as a cleric in melee is a bit of a mugs game unless you have high ability scores.

Agree, and the disadvantage they impose on a reaction is better than the 1 point in AC IMO.

 

[auburn2]

?

If we are in a corridor and all the bad guys are lined up perfectly for a lightning bolt, a line that starts with you can not be used if the bad guys are meleeing your allies in front of you, while a ranged explosion that starts past them can if there is enough room.

A line can be used in smaller spaces where a 20 foot radius AOE cannot be used safely, but you have to have room and the ability to maneuver to get your allies out from between you and the line of fire with your target.

You can always get in position to hit an enemy with lightning bolt without hitting party members, unless you are an evoker you can not do that nearly as well with fireball.

You can get more enemies in a fireball, but it is not a lot more typically. I think people white board this a lot, but in actual game play the difference is not that big and a fireball is typically not going to hit more than 2 or 3 enemies unless the wizard flat wins initiative or has surprise or is willing to frag allies I have seen cheat this - 2 bad guys side by side against 2 allies and he lets the fireball get both of bads but not the goods. If it is a circle it can't do that. It can get either one of the bad guys or both of the bad guys and one good guy.

 

[Dausuul]

And didn't it also bounce or reflect off stone walls as well? I swear that was a thing back in 1at or 2nd. Throw the bolt, have it hit the stone wall and come back, effectively hitting twice

Yes. There were in fact two versions (at least in the edition I recall). The default version had the bolt bounce straight back toward the caster, which made it easy to double-tap a foe but came with certain obvious hazards. The optional advanced version would reflect off at an angle like light hitting a mirror, making it the ideal spell for wizards who are also pool hustlers.

I do like the second option in principle, it's very cool, but I can see why they decided not to try and write it into the rules in later editions. As soon as you're bouncing off anything other than a plain flat wall, it gets hairy.

 

[Zardnaar]

Agree, and the disadvantage they impose on a reaction is better than the 1 point in AC IMO.

The 5' less speed hurts more due IMHO.

 

[DnD Warlord]

Maybe like the wall spells

What about breaking the line?

Allow the Lightning Bolt to turn 45 degrees (From straight to diagonal, from diagonal to horizontal, from horizontal to diagonal, etc) every 10ft of it's length.

Then, at least, you could aim it to hit enemies, turn around an ally, and then turn back to hit a more distant enemy. Or turn it into a hook to zap someone "Behind" you, relative to where you're firing from. It would also look more like a lightning bolt, rather than a laser on the battlemap.

Or you could create a "Branch" every time it hits a target. "Select two other targets within 15ft of the character in the line of effect. Those two targets take an amount of damage equal to the number of dice rolled against the character in the line". Dealt 8d6 to the guy in the line? Those two other targets within 15 feet take 8 damage.

Way more complex, but not super big.

 

[Bacon Bits]

?

If we are in a corridor and all the bad guys are lined up perfectly for a lightning bolt, a line that starts with you can not be used if the bad guys are meleeing your allies in front of you, while a ranged explosion that starts past them can if there is enough room.

A line can be used in smaller spaces where a 20 foot radius AOE cannot be used safely, but you have to have room and the ability to maneuver to get your allies out from between you and the line of fire with your target.

This is kind of my view, too. There's almost always a line through the battlefield that hits 2 or more opponents that will not hit any of your allies. However, it's often impractical to take advantage of that. You either need to move too far, move so that you're completely in the open, etc. I often feel like I can only hit one target with Lightning Bolt (or Cone of Cold!) because the area of effect is so inconvenient.

Furthermore, I think it's pretty common to be able to cast Fireball such that it only hits a few enemies, which feels like the above average case with Lightning Bolt. Since you can stand in once place and largely place the AOE wherever you want, you can then use your movement defensively. Since you have full control of the origin for Fireball, you end up with much more control.

 

[tetrasodium]

Huh, I’ve been working on a lot of custom spells lately and could have sworn fireball & lightning bolt increased by 2d6 for each level.

Nope, but that would just slow the rate of decay when upcasting if it did Casters are still left with so many other awful spells that are bad even before they get worse by upcasting those that upcasting these two is made to look like a "good" option by virtue of being better than truly abhorrent options though.

Also people crowing about how lightning bolt is "easier" to aim are vastly overestimating things

Spoiler: Lich & some wights

The pink line would take 40 ft of movement so is a nonoption unless he caster is a tabaxi or something but more importantly is that it will lock the caster in a situation where next round of combat they need to disengage to escape melee range. The red line looks slightly better with only 30ft needed but the idea of getting pinned back there with the lich while boxed in is rarely a good idea for casters even with 5e's loldeadly scaling of deadpool like PC durability. The yellow line is totally doable & doesn't trap them in melee at risk of an aoo/consumed disengage but I guess I'll look up a lich now?... resistance to cold lightning & necrotic, legendary resistance... guess it only hits one target.... oops

There are plenty of other ways the opponents could be arranged) around the martials who have higher at willdamage, burst damage, likely better armor, & maybe better hp than the caster except after the first lightning bolt snags two or more baddies it's trivial for the opponent s to jjust maneuver so it could take a significant amount of movement to line them up again if that's even possible to do without catching the caster's buddy in the blast. Ease of targeting support for lightning bolt needs to consider the fact that lightning bolt is a 120ft line from the caster who has a normal speed rather than a 120ft line between two convenient hypothetical points or a caster with unlimited speed. @jgsugden mentioned a bunch of them here