D&D 5E List of All 33 Races in Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse

Irlo · Jan 14, 2022

AcererakTriple6 said:
Can we stop with this extreme hyperbole and mischaracterization, please?

No, apparently we cannot.

Crimson Longinus · Jan 14, 2022

AcererakTriple6 said:
Can we stop with this extreme hyperbole and mischaracterization, please? It's super annoying, and it's not at all accurate. I knew this would happen when they introduced the Gothic Lineages and began allowing them and a few other races choose whether they want to be Small or Medium, but I had hoped that people would actually react to it in good faith and not just be reactionaries getting outraged over nothing.

Small races are still small. Goblins, Kobolds, and Fairies in this book are still listed as being Small, and don't have the "Small or Medium" choice that a few other newer/udpated races and lineages get to choose from (Owlin, Tabaxi, Harengon, et cetera). Goblins and Kobolds are still always the Small size. The same will apply to Gnomes and Halflings in the 2024 PHB.

Small races are still Small. Can we please stop with these ridiculous lies? You're trying to do reductio ad absurdum, but are failing in a manner that results in you committing strawmen fallacies.

I understand if you don't like these changes. I sincerely do, and I'm not fond of a few of them. But you have to at least be honest when complaining and not just make up BS like this.

And what does the book say about their height and weight?

Gammadoodler · Jan 14, 2022

Crimson Longinus said:
Like I said in the species mechanics thread, to me the main purpose of rules for species is to emulate what the species actually is like. So if they're physically weaker, then so be it. (Also paladins can use finesse weapons just fine. Barbarians can't but I consider that to be flaw in the class.) But if I actually gave them such penalty, I'd of course give them something to compensate. Like (off the top of my head) +1 to AC due being hard to hit due being so small.

In my mind species mechanics exist to provide fun character mechanical capabilities that exist more or less independent of character class.

So if they're weaker, there should be a purpose for it. Perhaps it's the cost of some other cool capability. I don't have any particular issue with that.

But being weaker because "that's how they really are" just doesn't hold water for me in the context of a fantasy RPG.

Cadence · Jan 14, 2022

Gammadoodler said:
In my mind species mechanics exist to provide fun character mechanical capabilities that exist more or less independent of character class.

So if they're weaker, there should be a purpose for it. Perhaps it's the cost of some other cool capability. I don't have any particular issue with that.

But being weaker because "that's how they really are" just doesn't hold water for me in the context of a fantasy RPG.

I'm fine with halflings being strong. They just need to be portrayed that way in the world. Look how strong a bunch of old articles and studies act like chimps are IRL, when they're apparently only 1.5 times stronger per pound than humans. Halflings in 5e are 3-5 times stronger per pound than humans. That is awesome! So play it up, or at least mention it. Give me a picture of a halfling arm wrestling a Half-orc or Goliath to a standstill in the PhB and I will never bring it up negatively again! And if someone wants to play an LotR Hobbit? Well, use the obvious dump stat to stay in character.

Gammadoodler · Jan 14, 2022

Cadence said:
I'm fine with halflings being strong. They just need to be portrayed that way in the world. Look how strong we act like chimps are IRL, when they're only 1.5 times stronger per pound than humans. Halflings in 5e are 3-5 times stronger per pound than humans. That is awesome! So play it up, or at least mention it. Give me a picture of a halfling arm wrestling a Half-orc or Goliath to a standstill in the PhB and I will never bring it up negatively again!

Totally agree. I think there are a lot of ways in which the 5e lore underutilizes halflings.

They've got this naturally brave, lucky, folk who are primarily motivated by the chance to experience a good story and who are tiny yet freakishly strong (relative to their size). And how do they live? In isolated unmolested human analogue farm villages. It's a tragic failure of imagination really.

(And that's not even mentioning the godawful art)

Cadence · Jan 14, 2022

Gammadoodler said:
Totally agree. I think there are a lot of ways in which the 5e lore underutilizes halflings.

They've got this naturally brave, lucky, folk who are primarily motivated by the chance to experience a good story and who are tiny yet freakishly strong (relative to their size). And how do they live? In isolated unmolested human analogue farm villages. It's a tragic failure of imagination really.

(And that's not even mentioning the godawful art)

I mean, the freakishly strong helps explain why they're not bothered out there a little more.

Of course the similar phenomena makes goblins and kobolds seem scarier.

Levistus's_Leviathan · Jan 14, 2022

Crimson Longinus said:
And what does the book say about their height and weight?

It says that they're small. And the PHB (or DMG, I can't remember) explains what the range of height for creatures of certain sizes are. And the book also says that you can pick the most appropriate height/weight determining table from the PHB if you want to randomly generate your height and weight for your character (and there are tables for Gnomes and Halflings to roll on).

They're still small. They've always been small, and they always will be. Being "small" is literally 90% of a Halfling's base identity, and there's no way that WotC will change that.

You can still roll for their height and weight and they are still small.

Crimson Longinus · Jan 14, 2022

AcererakTriple6 said:
It says that they're small. And the PHB (or DMG, I can't remember) explains what the range of height for creatures of certain sizes are. And the book also says that you can pick the most appropriate height/weight determining table from the PHB if you want to randomly generate your height and weight for your character (and there are tables for Gnomes and Halflings to roll on).

They're still small. They've always been small, and they always will be. Being "small" is literally 90% of a Halfling's base identity, and there's no way that WotC will change that.

You can still roll for their height and weight and they are still small.

It says they're mechanically small, it also apparently says they have same range of height and weight than humans. So being small in rules is no longer connected to being small in fiction or vice versa.

Irlo · Jan 14, 2022

Crimson Longinus said:
It says they're mechanically small, it also apparently says they have same range of height and weight than humans. So being small in rules is no longer connected to being small in fiction or vice versa.

Honestly, I'm not sure what makes that apparent to you.

The only direct quote I have seen to support the notion that halfling can be 6' tall was snipped from surrounding text that put the statement into context.

Maybe we'll have to wait for that book that none of us are going to buy.

Levistus's_Leviathan · Jan 14, 2022

Crimson Longinus said:
It says they're mechanically small, it also apparently says they have same range of height and weight than humans. So being small in rules is no longer connected to being small in fiction or vice versa.

No, that's the general ruling on player races. Specific (the size of Goblins, Kobolds, Fairies, Halflings, and Gnomes) beats general (the "player races are typically the same size/weight as humans" statement).

I covered this in this post. The confusion in this thread about the statement was largely due to one poster lying about/misrepresenting the statement as some sort of "all races all the time are the exact same size, weight, and age as Humans". What the statement is really about is a quick shorthand of "oh, most races fall into this, but if a specific race isn't, it will say so in its description".

It's 100% in line with D&D 5e's design philosophy. There are general rules, and there are specific ones. No contradiction, no absolutes.