D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Micah Sweet]

Clarity would be "giving the DM or the grognards a clear picture of thegame and thus telling them what to do"

Can't have that. Or people might think that having the same exact desire means the books aren't for them and no buy the books.

It does, sadly, all come down to money. Which is why WotC will never be the answer.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Not saying otherwise, and not using magic, implies that.

No.. it doesn't. Moreover, even if it did, the implication is resolved by having them do "magical" (I prefer fantastical) stuff.

Like, you're making a narrative case based on class mechanics. If we change the mechanics, the narrative changes.

 

[Minigiant]

Fighters* aren't your typical soldiers or guard. They have a destiny. Some gain this destiny at birth as the scions of dragon, giants or gods. Others forge their own destiny mastering esoteric forces like psionics, rune magic or spirit. As a fighter travels in the world, they unlock more of their destiny, making them capable of supernatural feats that bards sing of. Eventually, their master the source of their destiny and unlock powers to rival the mightiest magic.

While a fighter's destiny is often discovered early, it does not mean their fate is foretold. The battlefields of history are littered with fighters who were unable to fulfill their destiny, and some of the greatest villains in history are those who discovered their destiny was far different than they believed. Ultimately a fighter's story is not written in stone, they merely have the tools necessary to carve it out."

Part of me want to create a replacement for the 6th and 14th level ASI for a Fighter Feature called Destiny.

You can choose stuff like

• Dragonbrood
• Noble Scion
• Rare Birth
• Prodigy of Arms
• Fated Weilder
• Godling
• Spellscarred

and get a feature equal to a feat but more level appropriate.

Like a Fate Weilder would get a +1 magic weapon with a rolled ability. At 14 the bonus goes up to +2 and you get a better ability.

The Godling means you are the descendant of a demigod and get a 1, a minor divine feature, and can be revived at no cost.

The Prodigy of Arms allows to gain maneuvers, roll attack rocks for skill checks, and invent a maneuver.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No.. it doesn't. Moreover, even if it did, the implication is resolved by having them do "magical" (I prefer fantastical) stuff.

Agree to disagree on that.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Agree to disagree on that.

You can if you want.

But your insistence the existence of limitations that are never specified leaves a more restrictive design space and is based on zero explicit evidence.

 

[Scott Christian]

The whole premise is that the Fighter isn't as powerful.

Ok. So at your table they are not as powerful. And people want non-magical abilities that compensate for their weakness. Several have been proposed, including by me. They weren't strong enough. So now what?

 

[Scott Christian]

I have seen the complaints from Fighter players ever since I learned to play D&D.

But when I am player, I almost always play some form of fullcaster.

However, I "noticed" or rather understood the problem when carefully discerning which spell is more powerful than which other spell. I got a decent sense of spells in the highest tiers, and what they do − and what they should be doing at those high tiers.

That is when I realized, Fighter mechanics arent even in the game.

I agree, that is a good way to form perspective.

I too, after playing my fighter, played a warlock to 20th level. My fighter, in the end, was way stronger in combat. Way, way stronger. As far as RP utility, I think my warlock had him beat hands down. As far as exploration, I think they were equal.

Fighters are all about evading damage, taking damage, and dealing damage during a combat encounter. But they often have little or no competence to deal with noncombat encounters, especially high tier challenges that normally involve heavy magic.

Many D&D games (including our own) are combat-centric. So much of the time, the Fighter contributes fully. But there are times when the adventure switches to noncombat, and the Fighter is at a loss. At some tables, most of the adventure might be noncombat.

I hear you, but that has not been my experience. (For the record, I do think we were an average table as far as RP, exploration, and combat splits were concerned. Although, that is often skewed just because combat at those levels often takes soooooo long - especially with eight players.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You can if you want.

But your insistence the existence of limitations that are never specified leaves a more restrictive design space and is based on zero explicit evidence.

You don't think there's a setting assumption that the world and the stuff in it follows the laws of physics as we understand them unless told or shown otherwise? That's pretty darn common even in fantasy literature.

 

[Emberashh]

You don't think there's a setting assumption that the world and the stuff in it follows the laws of physics as we understand them unless told or shown otherwise? That's pretty darn common even in fantasy literature.

Unless one is pulling a Super Mega Tolkien and kicking their story off by describing the fundamental particles of the new universe this is how any story not strictly based in our real world operates.

 

[Gammadoodler]

You don't think there's a setting assumption that the world and the stuff in it follows the laws of physics as we understand them unless told or shown otherwise? That's pretty darn common even in fantasy literature.

In a setting where the first choice you make is between 600 year-old child of the fey, fiendspawn, human, and a seven foot dragon man...absolutely not.

Any similarity to real-world physics as we understand them is simple narrative convenience.