Mechanics of Revived Settings; your thoughts?

[Remathilis]

Paladins aren't really a problem for Dark Sun - now they are not required to be lawful good and wear full plate. They can just be refluffed to Templars. You could do all the PHB classes simply by replacing subclasses.

It's the races that need to be different to make a setting feel different.

Which has been my point in classes all along.

As for races, there is a variety of options. You can use current races with some changes (such a wood elves representing Silvanesti), you can add world-specific subraces (such as an Athasian elf subrace or a kender subrace for halfling.) You can rename and refluff races (dragonborn as dray, half-orcs as calibans) our you can replace them with a race that fills a similar niche (half-orcs don't exist, but minotaurs fill the brute role).

Further, we only need worry about finding places and replaces for the 9 phb races; supplement races are supplemental. If they fit (such as genasi in DS) but there is no onus to fit everything in every supplement.

 

[Satyrn]

Further, we only need worry about finding places and replaces for the 9 phb races; supplement races are supplemental. If they fit (such as genasi in DS) but there is no onus to fit everything in every supplement.

If I was to build a setting based on your view, I'd still only worry about 4 races. To me, the Basic Rule options are the only ones that would need to be included, and I feel like the PHB supports that by treating the Dwarf, Elf, Halfling and Human as the elite four, grouped together before introducing all the rest.

Similarly, I think there are only 4 classes that would absolutely need to be included, too.

And having written that, I'm sitting here nodding to myself, thinking "yup, as long as I can roll up a Dwarf cleric or a halfling rogue, that's D&D to me."

 

[Tony Vargas]

The d20 system wasn't TSR, at all. The d20 system was made by WoTC. Period. TSR would often use semi-compatible systems (such as Gamma World or Boot Hill) and have conversions. But TSR never had the d20 system. And this also has nothing to do with the DMG, which isn't the D20 system.

Bit of a tangent, but... back in the day, early 80s, some companies started using what I remember thinking of and/or hearing called 'core systems.' Most or all of the offerings from a game company would use the same or a very similar rules. The first, I think, to do that, was Chaosium, when it bundled the core of RuneQuest as 'Basic Roleplaying,' and used it for CoC, but I could easily be wrong, that's just the one I remember being talked about that way first.

Anyway, TSR, from that point of view, never claimed to have a 'core system,' but through the mid 80s, it seemed to have two de-facto 'core systems.' A 3d6-stat, (mostly) d20 resolution, AC/hps system, used in D&D (0D&D, BECMI, & AD&D), Metamorphosis Alpha, and Gamma World, at least, and a % based system used in Top Secret & Boot Hill (again, at minimum, there may have been others). At some point, they also got a license from Marvel and did MSH, using the FASE-RIP system which they also briefly afflicted Gamma World. Then later added Alternity (inflicted on Gamma World) and Amazing Engine (foisted on Metamorphsis Alpha).

But, d20 is a very clear descendant of that first de-facto core system used in the original D&D, Metamorphosis Alpha, and Gamma World games in the 70s, before 'core systems' were a thing (assuming they were ever a thing, that is).

 

[Satyrn]

Bit of a tangent, but... back in the day, early 80s, some companies started using what I remember thinking of and/or hearing called 'core systems.' Most or all of the offerings from a game company would use the same or a very similar rules. The first, I think, to do that, was Chaosium, when it bundled the core of RuneQuest as 'Basic Roleplaying,' and used it for CoC, but I could easily be wrong, that's just the one I remember being talked about that way first.

Anyway, TSR, from that point of view, never claimed to have a 'core system,' but through the mid 80s, it seemed to have two de-facto 'core systems.' A 3d6-stat, (mostly) d20 resolution, AC/hps system, used in D&D (0D&D, BECMI, & AD&D), Metamorphosis Alpha, and Gamma World, at least, and a % based system used in Top Secret & Boot Hill (again, at minimum, there may have been others). At some point, they also got a license from Marvel and did MSH, using the FASE-RIP system which they also briefly afflicted Gamma World. Then later added Alternity (inflicted on Gamma World) and Amazing Engine (foisted on Metamorphsis Alpha).

But, d20 is a very clear descendant of that first de-facto core system used in the original D&D, Metamorphosis Alpha, and Gamma World games in the 70s, before 'core systems' were a thing (assuming they were ever a thing, that is).

Did TSR D&D even have an internal core system?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Tony Vargas]

So there was an ability to "convert" between systems, loosely, but even if you were adventuring from a D&D campaign to Gamma World (not uncommon) you had to do conversions. Just like how, within D&D, there were constant subsystems that were different for resolving an issue or action, it seemed that every game required a different system. GOOD TIMES!

Each game was at least a different take on a 'core' system, maybe just as a matter of designers recycling ideas rather than re-inventing the wheel, but there would be significant differences. D&D and Gamma World, for instance both had hps, levels, and AC with d20 attack rolls, but GW levels were pretty different from D&D levels and a fairly obscure sub-system that didn't radically increase the power of the PC as he leveled, and 1e GW didn't have classes, at all. That was the big difference between 'core' systems in the early 80s and 'universal' systems later in the 80s. The universal systems were compatible across games, little or no 'conversion' involved. d20 has more in common with core systems than universal, that way.

 

[Parmandur]

Well, I wouldn't be surprised, at all, if we saw an official 5e Gamma World at some point. There are already some great fan conversions.

As far some of the older IP, such as Star Frontiers ... I wouldn't hold my breath. Not with the lack of developers and giant backlog of products to do.

Actually, Mearls did run his personal takes on both GW and SF at GaryCon this year; I would take odds that both might be on the docket

 

[Eltab]

Thus, Metamorphosis Alpha, Gamma World, Star Frontiers, Dark Sun etc where not "D20" (although D20 versions may have been made)

Gamma World has been converted into several popular rules systems, and had a few not-so-popular rules systems of its own.
I see it as a world background, now, and not its own game.

I eagerly await a 5e conversion guide for it. But first, 5e's psionics are 'not ready for prime time' yet and high-tech rules are not even on anybody's development schedule.

 

[Parmandur]

Gamma World has been converted into several popular rules systems, and had a few not-so-popular rules systems of its own.
I see it as a world background, now, and not its own game.

I eagerly await a 5e conversion guide for it. But first, 5e's psionics are 'not ready for prime time' yet and high-tech rules are not even on anybody's development schedule.

On the contrary, Mearls already made high tech rules and used them for both his Gamma World and Star Frontiers game already: might be something that we see sooner rather than later.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If I was to build a setting based on your view, I'd still only worry about 4 races. To me, the Basic Rule options are the only ones that would need to be included, and I feel like the PHB supports that by treating the Dwarf, Elf, Halfling and Human as the elite four, grouped together before introducing all the rest.

The thing is, elves, dwarves and halflings are the most tired sub-Tolkien derivative clichés, who should really be at the top of the list for the chop in order to make a setting that is actually interesting.