D&D 5E More Interesting Archers (+thread)

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, rogue would be the sniper of archery; if you want variety in trick shots or multiple targets and the like, you need the extra attacks a fighter or ranger would grant.

Yep, or a “zen archer” monk who can bonus action shoot and has some open hand style “when you hit” stuff.

 

[Krachek]

An archer that can make 1 kill out of 6 using melee weapon.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

An archer that can make 1 kill out of 6 using melee weapon.

Not sure how to parse? Do you mean an archer that is reasonably effective in melee?

 

[Krachek]

Not sure how to parse? Do you mean an archer that is reasonably effective in melee?

Indeed a decent effectiveness in melee. and I gladly hope that a melee fighter could grab a bow a be dangerous too!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Indeed a decent effectiveness in melee. and I gladly hope that a melee fighter could grab a bow a be dangerous too!

Yeah for sure, basic competence in melee and range makes sense for any warrior class.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

An idea I have had for awhile, but failed to think of a proper way to implement it is an Archer drawing two arrows at once and shooting them both at the same time (with a penalty to hit if they want to hit two different people). They'd have to have Extra Attack, and expend two attacks in one and use the same d20 for the attack roll, but have damage rolled separately for each arrow. The benefits and disadvantages of this are pretty clear, if you get a critical hit, both arrows automatically hit their target, which is especially good if you have advantage on the attack roll, but the same is true for critical misses, and the fact that if it's the same attack roll, you don't get an extra chance to hit this round.

Anyway, it's just something cool that I thought could work in 5e, but I'm not sure the best way to implement it. Ideas?

 

[Ancalagon]

Rogue is probably the best - damage spike from sneak attack, ability to disengage as a bonus action to get away from melee and expertise on sneak (and ability to hide as a bonus) make for a really good sniper. Take Assassin subclass probably don’t need any special subclass.

... isn't there a 30 foot range limit on sneak attack?

That BM and my monk killed a dozen orcs from 500 feet away (poor GM)

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

... isn't there a 30 foot range limit on sneak attack?

No. Where'd you get that idea?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

... isn't there a 30 foot range limit on sneak attack?

That BM and my monk killed a dozen orcs from 500 feet away (poor GM)

Not in 5e, I don’t think.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

No. Where'd you get that idea?

3.5, IIRC

 

[doctorbadwolf]

An idea I have had for awhile, but failed to think of a proper way to implement it is an Archer drawing two arrows at once and shooting them both at the same time (with a penalty to hit if they want to hit two different people). They'd have to have Extra Attack, and expend two attacks in one and use the same d20 for the attack roll, but have damage rolled separately for each arrow. The benefits and disadvantages of this are pretty clear, if you get a critical hit, both arrows automatically hit their target, which is especially good if you have advantage on the attack roll, but the same is true for critical misses, and the fact that if it's the same attack roll, you don't get an extra chance to hit this round.

Anyway, it's just something cool that I thought could work in 5e, but I'm not sure the best way to implement it. Ideas?

Yeah! In 4e that was a power called Split The Tree where you made 2 attacks, 1 each against 2 targets with a certain range of eachother, that existed to model exactly that.

I’d love to update that for 5e.

 

[DeviousQuail]

Rogue is probably the best - damage spike from sneak attack, ability to disengage as a bonus action to get away from melee and expertise on sneak (and ability to hide as a bonus) make for a really good sniper. Take Assassin subclass probably don’t need any special subclass.

Tasha's also introduced the Steady Aim bonus action for rogues so as long as you don't mind staying put you get advantage on your attack.

As for trick shots a rogue could sacrifice some amount of sneak attack dice for extra effects. Otherwise, they don't have much to trade off unlike BM or casters.

 

[Flamestrike]

Second, I’d look for somewhere to add some trick shots. Here are some rough ideas for those:

1. Deflect Attacks. Reaction, someone makes a weapon attack within your short range. You shoot the weapon, deflecting the attack. Make it different from monks deflect missiles mechanically, but make it effective.
2. Pinning Shot. Look, not everyone plays a game of murder-dice. It’s often useful to not kill people. It’s also a classic move.
3. Ricochet shot. Oh you got cover? Lol
4. Hobble shot. Like pinning shot, but much less friendly. possibly an upgrade or class/feat feature.
5. Blinding shot. Cut a forehead, eyes get covered. Non lethal, classic, very mean.
6. Split the Tree. Two arrows at once, against two targets. Limited range, maybe less damage, but iconic and cool as hell.

Doesnt Battlemaster do a lot of the above?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Doesnt Battlemaster do a lot of the above?

At this point I’m not considering stuff like this.

But to your point...no, it doesn’t. I specifically left out the archer-friendly manuevers in my list.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If a class, what does level 1-3 look like?

I kinda figure subclass at level 1 or 2, because the theme of the archer needs to come in quite early.

Fighting Styles? Perhaps a couple new ones, Archery, Thrown Weapons? Is this where Point Blank Shot (damage bonus when shooting at close range) and Rapid Shot (bonus action shoot or an extra shot when you crit or down a target?) could live?

What about a Fighting Style that lets you move 10 feet every time you use a reaction of any kind? Does that have legs, at all?

Anyway, my initial thoughts are:

Hit Die: d8 (I’d be willing to go d6 even, but this is a warrior so it shouldn’t be too squish)
Saves: Dex and Strength?
Skills: I’d go for 3 skills, but maybe 2 and a tool like monks? Athletics, Acrobatics, Perception, Stealth, Animal Handling, the rest is gravy.
Weapons: all ranged weapons, simple weapons, and maybe 1 melee martial weapon?
Armor: Light only, no shields

Level 1, Fighting Style, defensive movement ability, ribbon

Level 2, Archetype so big that 1/2 casting can fit?

Level 3, Stances

 

[Ancalagon]

3.5, IIRC

You are correct. However I was "slightly" right in the fact that the attack cannot have disadvantage, which means short range for the weapon only (so for a short bow, 60 feet). However, with Tasha this changes...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You are correct. However I was "slightly" right in the fact that the attack cannot have disadvantage, which means short range for the weapon only (so for a short bow, 60 feet). However, with Tasha this changes...

Actually it doesn’t change, because you still have disadvantage, you just also have advantage.

Maybe, I’ve never actually searched Sage advice on the subject.

 

[Ancalagon]

Yep, or a “zen archer” monk who can bonus action shoot and has some open hand style “when you hit” stuff.

You can do that with a kensei monk.

1: For free, you can spend a bonus action to add 1d4 dmg to your ranged attacks. So you aren't doing more attacks, but you are doing more damage with well aimed shots.

2: For Ki. In Tasha, Monks gain the power "if you spent ki this round, you can spend a bonus action to do one weapon attack". This looks great, but it's rarely usable because most ki uses are "spend ki to do cool bonus action X". In other words, your bonus action is busy.

however...

Using a Kensei monk (to get the longbow), if you miss, you can spend a bit of ki (1 ki for +2 to hit after the fact, up to 3 ki (ie +6)). So you spent ki to convert a miss into a hit and now you get to spend a bonus action shooting another arrow! (instead of adding 1d4 to 2 attacks). This pairs well with sharpshooter. If you get 2 great rolls and both attack hits without having to spend ki... well that's not too shabby an outcome either.

 

[Ancalagon]

Actually it doesn’t change, because you still have disadvantage, you just also have advantage.

Maybe, I’ve never actually searched Sage advice on the subject.

Ooof, that would not fly at my table. But hey, rulings not rules right?

 

[Horwath]

If a class, what does level 1-3 look like?

I kinda figure subclass at level 1 or 2, because the theme of the archer needs to come in quite early.

Fighting Styles? Perhaps a couple new ones, Archery, Thrown Weapons? Is this where Point Blank Shot (damage bonus when shooting at close range) and Rapid Shot (bonus action shoot or an extra shot when you crit or down a target?) could live?

What about a Fighting Style that lets you move 10 feet every time you use a reaction of any kind? Does that have legs, at all?

Anyway, my initial thoughts are:

Hit Die: d8 (I’d be willing to go d6 even, but this is a warrior so it shouldn’t be too squish)
Saves: Dex and Strength?
Skills: I’d go for 3 skills, but maybe 2 and a tool like monks? Athletics, Acrobatics, Perception, Stealth, Animal Handling, the rest is gravy.
Weapons: all ranged weapons, simple weapons, and maybe 1 melee martial weapon?
Armor: Light only, no shields

Level 1, Fighting Style, defensive movement ability, ribbon

Level 2, Archetype so big that 1/2 casting can fit?

Level 3, Stances

You could just rework a fighter little bit:

remove medium and heavy armor proficiency, replace it with 3 extra skills(with feats 1 armor proficiency is worth 1.5 skills).

Remove second wind, replace it with; when you take damage from melee attack move half speed as a reaction without provoking AoO.

Remove action surge; add rapid shot. When you take Attack action with ranged weapon without loading property, make one ranged attack as a bonus action with that weapon. You can make a number of rapid shots equal to your proficiency modifier. Recharge on short or long rest.

Remove indomitable; replace it with; when you fail attack roll with a ranged weapon, re-roll it.


take arcane archer or battlemaster as sub-class...