dd.stevenson
Super KY
Give 'em a staff of reincarnation with any number of charges. That'll learn 'em.
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D&D 5E Need a safety net for 1st level characters -- it's complicated
- Thread starter Sword of Spirit
- Start date
Sword of Spirit
Legend
Great suggestions!
To clarify a bit on the paradox (I don't want to get overly detailed, on the off chance that my player read this and get major campaign mysteries dispelled):
I've built a world that is going to follow the same rules consistently. This involves the possibility of "level inappropriate" random encounters, monsters that act according to their nature and inclinations rather than the needs of plot, and other assumptions. Raising the dead (by 'normal' means) is expensive, involves potential complications, and has major stigma attached to it. So this is the world, and it's the same world whether the characters are 1st or 20th level.
Once the characters get a few levels under their belts, they will be able to interact with that world on it's terms, so that even though they avoid death like the plague, and it can be a big setback, it should still be an enjoyable setback (occasionally losing is part of the fun of playing).
For this particular campaign set in this world, conceptually and mechanically I want them starting off at 1st level and staying at low levels for a while. (I've slowed down advancement significantly.) I find low levels provide experiences that go away (or have to be forced by artificially inflating challenges) at higher levels. I want the players to get a good opportunity to really experience multiple adventures at each level before moving on.
Also, in this campaign, there are both in-world and out-of-world reasons for not allowing a player to lose their character permanently.
I'm also not looking to change the actual rules of the game (I have some house rules, but nothing really relevant, and use some of the "grittier" options from the DMG.) It is highly appropriate in this campaign, however, to hand out stuff I normally wouldn't, like a powerful limited-use item, a special blessing, etc. It just needs to make sense and fit into the feel of the campaign.
So the only real trouble is finding out what my best options are for dealing with that one "sensitive" spot (levels 1-2ish). It's going to be an extended period of time, and I want to provide just the right amount of options for dealing with the possibility of character death to keep from falling back on the more extreme options I have available too early in the characters' careers.
To clarify a bit on the paradox (I don't want to get overly detailed, on the off chance that my player read this and get major campaign mysteries dispelled):
I've built a world that is going to follow the same rules consistently. This involves the possibility of "level inappropriate" random encounters, monsters that act according to their nature and inclinations rather than the needs of plot, and other assumptions. Raising the dead (by 'normal' means) is expensive, involves potential complications, and has major stigma attached to it. So this is the world, and it's the same world whether the characters are 1st or 20th level.
Once the characters get a few levels under their belts, they will be able to interact with that world on it's terms, so that even though they avoid death like the plague, and it can be a big setback, it should still be an enjoyable setback (occasionally losing is part of the fun of playing).
For this particular campaign set in this world, conceptually and mechanically I want them starting off at 1st level and staying at low levels for a while. (I've slowed down advancement significantly.) I find low levels provide experiences that go away (or have to be forced by artificially inflating challenges) at higher levels. I want the players to get a good opportunity to really experience multiple adventures at each level before moving on.
Also, in this campaign, there are both in-world and out-of-world reasons for not allowing a player to lose their character permanently.
I'm also not looking to change the actual rules of the game (I have some house rules, but nothing really relevant, and use some of the "grittier" options from the DMG.) It is highly appropriate in this campaign, however, to hand out stuff I normally wouldn't, like a powerful limited-use item, a special blessing, etc. It just needs to make sense and fit into the feel of the campaign.
So the only real trouble is finding out what my best options are for dealing with that one "sensitive" spot (levels 1-2ish). It's going to be an extended period of time, and I want to provide just the right amount of options for dealing with the possibility of character death to keep from falling back on the more extreme options I have available too early in the characters' careers.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
First up, I think that keeping characters at 1st and 2nd level for a long while will have some problems. Fundamentally the classes aren't properly balanced at those levels - you're expected to fly through them in a session or two. Compare a level 1 paladin or ranger with a level 1 fighter for instance. I'd consider sprinting through 1 and 2 and plateauing at 3 where everyone has their fundamental class features instead.
Beyond that - hand out an item that casts gentle repose. As long as you use it on a body within 1 minute, and keep using it every 10 days, you'll be able to raise the target with revivify at a later date.
Beyond that - hand out an item that casts gentle repose. As long as you use it on a body within 1 minute, and keep using it every 10 days, you'll be able to raise the target with revivify at a later date.
Imaculata
Hero
It still sounds like you are trying to do conflicting things. You want to make resurrection expensive, you want to keep them at low levels for a while (which means they'll be vulnerable), you want there to be the possibility of encountering level inappropriate encounters (I presume this means monsters that are stronger than the players might be able to handle)... and yet you want a safety net at low levels. But all of the a fore mentioned ideas contradict that mission statement.
I think the real thing you should be worrying about, is giving players some control over the risks they take. Exploring a dungeon and dying from an over-leveled monster isn't any fun, regardless of what level you are at. That doesn't mean that you can't have some powerful opponents in your world, but just make sure the players know that a monster is out of their league, before they pick a fight with it, or before it picks a fight with them.
I think the real thing you should be worrying about, is giving players some control over the risks they take. Exploring a dungeon and dying from an over-leveled monster isn't any fun, regardless of what level you are at. That doesn't mean that you can't have some powerful opponents in your world, but just make sure the players know that a monster is out of their league, before they pick a fight with it, or before it picks a fight with them.
The-Phantom
First Post
Give them a device that resurrects them but it will kill a npc if they do. Now they have a moral choice also maybe they know while in town they can see the aura of people that are possible soul doners that way it is more of a choice this doesn't work for murder hobos
There is a lot you can do with statting out enemies, traps etc. Enemies like the 11 hp Bandit that attack at +3 for 1d6+1 don't on the face of it look all that different to the Orc, and can be used in the same role as the Thug - 25hp and 2 attacks at +4 for d6+2 - but the lethality level will be very different. Plus they give less XP so you can stay at low levels for longer per RAW.
IMO Fudgist GMs tend to be the ones who throw overwhelming fights at the PCs, then fudge to avoid TPK. Keep the threat level much lower, but real, and you should get the vibe you're after.
Two quick thoughts:
1) Lots of NPCs. These could be controlled by you, or your players, or a combination of both to suit your needs. NPCs would give a bit of a buffer and allow for dramatic deaths from time to time. Sometimes my players have lamented the loss of a great NPC as much as any other loss in the game.
2) Character trees. Dark Sun had this great idea that characters started at level 3 and each player made 3 characters. What this served was to give the players a built in option to jump back into the game if one of their characters bought the farm early. What it also allowed was for you to "rotate" characters if they all knew each other and operated from the same base of operations. You could even combine this with #1 above if you were willing to split time in the limelight among the PCs.
Both of these options do require some work and give a bit less time in the limelight for PCs, but can work given the right campaign.
1) Lots of NPCs. These could be controlled by you, or your players, or a combination of both to suit your needs. NPCs would give a bit of a buffer and allow for dramatic deaths from time to time. Sometimes my players have lamented the loss of a great NPC as much as any other loss in the game.
2) Character trees. Dark Sun had this great idea that characters started at level 3 and each player made 3 characters. What this served was to give the players a built in option to jump back into the game if one of their characters bought the farm early. What it also allowed was for you to "rotate" characters if they all knew each other and operated from the same base of operations. You could even combine this with #1 above if you were willing to split time in the limelight among the PCs.
Both of these options do require some work and give a bit less time in the limelight for PCs, but can work given the right campaign.
Ralif Redhammer
Legend
Underclocking the challenge level of the encounters would be one choice – at lower levels, the characters remain decidedly squishy. Even encounters with an Easy rating can be challenging, depending on the party makeup.
Another option is to increase the amount of skill and social challenges. This gives more meat to an adventure without draining spell/ability/healing/HP resources as heavily as combat can.
Another option is to increase the amount of skill and social challenges. This gives more meat to an adventure without draining spell/ability/healing/HP resources as heavily as combat can.
NotActuallyTim
First Post
Skip the lowest levels.
It sounds like you have a game world appropriate for at least level 3 or higher characters. So don't waste everybody's time on level 1. You want a safety net? Second wind, Cunning action, Wizard Schools and other mechanics make great built in safety nets.
It sounds like you have a game world appropriate for at least level 3 or higher characters. So don't waste everybody's time on level 1. You want a safety net? Second wind, Cunning action, Wizard Schools and other mechanics make great built in safety nets.
Savevsdeath
First Post
This. It feels like you're working against your own goals; either do grim and gritty Fantasy-
in'-Vietnam, or don't. Or just pull a Dark Souls and make it so they resurrect at specific locations upon death (nearest temple to their god/the death god, the last place they slept, etc.) upon death with their death penalties for a month as you intend. But all in all, i'm with Imaculata: Either be gritty and let them suffer the consequences, or don't. On an unrelated note, i cannot fathom how that level of utter brutality is in any way fun, but YMMV, IMHO, and all that jazz.
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