Need clarification on total damage from a charge with lots of modifiers

[drnuncheon]

First of all, the helmet takes up two slots - the visor with blindsight is one slot and the helmet is another.

Dench needs to make a MEA to lower the visor and activate blindsight.

Aha. That certainly explains it - although activating an item is usually a standard action and the price should probably be higher if it's an MEA.

Also, I would never give a discount for the two save bonuses if they stack. That's like giving a discount to your bracers because they give a deflection bonus to AC as well as an armor bonus. The 75% cost rule is mostly meant for items like staffs, or for items where the specific powers actually overlap (an item that gave you both comprehend languages and tongues, for example.)

J

 

[Kershek]

Aha. That certainly explains it - although activating an item is usually a standard action and the price should probably be higher if it's an MEA.

No, the visor is use-activated up to twice per day. All he has to do is lower the visor. He originally wanted it to be a free action, but I said that, in order for the visor not to come down accidently from violent motions, the hinge needs to be strong enough so that deliberate effort must be made to lower it, causing a MEA.

Also, I would never give a discount for the two save bonuses if they stack. That's like giving a discount to your bracers because they give a deflection bonus to AC as well as an armor bonus. The 75% cost rule is mostly meant for items like staffs, or for items where the specific powers actually overlap (an item that gave you both comprehend languages and tongues, for example.)

Interesting. Hadn't thought of that.

 

[Piratecat]

I also don't want them to think I'm crafting creatures that hit all their weaknesses specifically. That can get old fast.

Not that it's any of my business, but you sound like a good, fair DM. That's a great attitude. It's fun to see something besides a "I must cruuush him!" attitude even when the player goes in for power gaming.

I'm a big fan of making challenges that let the PCs strut their stuff once in a while, as long as they still feel like they're being challenged. That's probably the trick with this player.

 

[Trine]

Knowing him, he'll probably make it usable once per day to cut the costs. That would make it 16,200 gold or 8,100 gold to make. Or double it for twice per day.

I'd have to take a look at how to increase that without him thinking it's being priced high just to penalize him.

The pricing chart in the DMG is just a guideline. If he disagrees, introduce him to Monte Cook. (Part 2 here)

The best way to price the effect is to consider the bonuses he'd be gaining and compare to existing magical items in the DMG. The chart should really end up as a last method.

 

[Kershek]

Not that it's any of my business, but you sound like a good, fair DM. That's a great attitude. It's fun to see something besides a "I must cruuush him!" attitude even when the player goes in for power gaming.

I'm a big fan of making challenges that let the PCs strut their stuff once in a while, as long as they still feel like they're being challenged. That's probably the trick with this player.

Trust me, we all do our share of powergaming and enjoy it. In the game that he runs, I have a 6th level Arcane Gnome (Drmg #291) Illusionist with a 20 starting intelligence, spell focus illusion, and Fox's Cunning prepared for battle. I've been creaming the walls with the orc tribe that's been attacking our city (sleep at up to DC 19 does wonders). Next level, my Phantasmal Killer will be at up to DC 24 and he's not looking forward to that I was going to take Greater Spell Focus Illusion, but I'm getting worried about the SR creatures he could be throwing at us (because I just got through doing just that in my campaign with Speaker in Dreams), so I went with Spell Penetration instead.

I won't deny that, as a DM, you do get an initial urge of "cruuush him" and "I must show them they are puny!"

 

[danielinthwolvesden]

Ah, right, that Feat- "power lunge". It replaces the x1 or x1.5 from a weapon with a +2, doesn't ADD. Thus at Str28, it is +18, not +13 and +9, thus you are giving him an extra +4.

So, now he is a "mere" +24 to damage, and that includes +3 from power attack, which reduces his chance to hit. So, on a charge, after he waits for a round to get that spell on him- he'll do something like 60 points of damage- and this only with two long term spells up & running. Pretty good, but....

Note "grease" or "entangle" 1st level spells screws up the charge, as doe caltrops, and better yet, a glaive or longspear set for a charge. The Monster can have all those same bonuses, and when he charges the Monster, the Monster gets 60 points on him- FIRST. Two monsters with glaives, next to each other, and that's 120 points, and so much BarbarianBurger. I mean- the bad guys can have Bulls Str, and have levels of Bbn too, you know. And they don't even need weird feats to get this. (Ok, without the one feat, they only do 25 pts dbled to 50 each, but that's nasty enuf, and there could be three of them, you know)

Still, I would not allow "self only" spells to be casually turned into Wondrous items. There is a reason why those spells are extra powerful and have that limitation on them, you know.

 

[Piratecat]

"Large and in charge" is one of my favorite monster feats. For a monster with 10' reach, it stops charging characters dead in their tracks. Heartily recommended!

 

[Ziggy]

"Large and in charge" is one of my favorite monster feats. For a monster with 10' reach, it stops charging characters dead in their tracks. Heartily recommended!

And especially effective if you combine it with high dex and Combat Reflexes. That will stop them from using ordinary moves to get inside your reach as well.

Another tip is to use trip (even better with reach). Even with his high strenght he is vulnerable to large monsters with similar strength. It's always fun to watch them fall flat on their back instead of doing their usual massive damage. For monsters with high intelligence, Knock-Down (from S&F) combines damage and a free Trip on that AoO.

Finally, disarm can be used for monsters with large weapons(unless he has a locked gauntlet). Make him fear that AoO, not beacuse of the damage, but because he'll lose his offensive ability, and be a sitting duck for the counterattack.

.Ziggy

 

[Kershek]

Ah, right, that Feat- "power lunge". It replaces the x1 or x1.5 from a weapon with a +2, doesn't ADD. Thus at Str28, it is +18, not +13 and +9, thus you are giving him an extra +4.

I don't really want to get into that one. It's been a huge debate on ENWorld and the people in my group thinks it's ludicrous to remove the benefit of more damage from a 2-handed weapon which obviously should be doing more damage than a one-handed weapon during a power lunge. I do tend to agree with them on that one since it just makes sense.

 

[Brista]

There is a big game balance problem with allowing players to tailor the Tome & Blood item creation chart to max their characters

For instance your player's damage would go through the roof if he noticed the line:

Ability enhancement bonus - bonus squared by 1000gp

So 100, 000 gp for a +10 Strength belt?

There is a recent thread here on item creation asking where it is specified that PCs can make original items. That might be a good one for you to read to keep a grip on the game

You may decide based on the arguments in that thread that your players can't make their own items. Even with the items provided in the standard system people can develop incredible characters

Don't be too hard on the player - he's simply developing his character as best he can - and doing a very impressive job!

Managing a situation where the players are imbalanced is rather difficult. I would be inclined to talk to the players and say that you feel the game is becoming rather out of hand and asking how they feel the group should go forward

They may well see DnD as a sort of pen and paper Diablo2X where you power-up your character to invincibility and wander around collecting exp and items. (That's slightly unfair - it is possible to play a challenging game of Diablo, it's simply that most online players choose not to). If that's the game they want to play then you have to ask yourself whether you want to run it. If it bothers you but doesn't bother your friends then maybe you should let someone else run it and just play (and munchkinise)

I think it is actually very healthy to do that but then once the game starts to seem trivial and flat switch to a more challenging and complex game (almost certainly retiring the over-powered characters)