D&D 5E New Drow cultures coming in Starlight Enclave, the Lorendrow and the Aevendrow

[Henadic Theologian]

Eh, I'm cool with what we've learned about the lorendrow, or greenshadow elves, so far, and the one image we've seen of their city. It didn't scream wood elves to me, despite the arboreal locale. The dark, shadowy light levels, the trees so huge they rise high above the buildings . . . almost cavern-like . . . and the glowing buildings reminiscent of Menzoberranzan's glowing buildings . . . I like it so far!

The names may lead to confusion, FR already has Star and Green elves now it has Star, Starlight, Green, and Greenshadow elves.

 

[Marandahir]

The names may lead to confusion, FR already has Star and Green elves now it has Star, Starlight, Green, and Greenshadow elves.

Are we sure that Star Elves and Green Elves are not coterminous with Aevendrow and Lorendrow, like a ring species?

Same thing happened with Dusk Elves back in 4e - they're clearly a branching off of Drow that didn't go down below, but they're a fiddle-dial for Elves.

 

[Mecheon]

What would you have done?

So, all drow would need a central theme as to why they're drow and not just other elves. I vote just, make underground the theme and go from there, look at weird underground stuff and focus that in.

Here's the Salanito Drow. They live in great underground waterways and tame giant, colourless lobsters and axolotls. Need to get around the sunken seas of the Underdark and have a possible ally against the Aboleth? Here's your drow.
Here's the Adantos Drow. They live deep, closer to the core where there's plenty of heat. They take that loving art thing of surface elves, except this time its in ancient crystal palaces above seas of molten lava. They invented adamantine and tie back more into original dark elf mythology and ideas (plus a little bit of some of the Sulatar from Eberron)

The ice ones I'm fine with but, look, if you're going to give us forest drow, at least make it like, a weird underground forest and not just 'huh some drow in a forest. okay'

 

[Marandahir]

So, all drow would need a central theme as to why they're drow and not just other elves. I vote just, make underground the theme and go from there, look at weird underground stuff and focus that in.

Here's the Salanito Drow. They live in great underground waterways and tame giant, colourless lobsters and axolotls. Need to get around the sunken seas of the Underdark and have a possible ally against the Aboleth? Here's your drow.
Here's the Adantos Drow. They live deep, closer to the core where there's plenty of heat. They take that loving art thing of surface elves, except this time its in ancient crystal palaces above seas of molten lava. They invented adamantine and tie back more into original dark elf mythology and ideas (plus a little bit of some of the Sulatar from Eberron)

The ice ones I'm fine with but, look, if you're going to give us forest drow, at least make it like, a weird underground forest and not just 'huh some drow in a forest. okay'

While I’d normally agree on this point (Underdark weirdness is a GREAT overarching theme for the elf subrace from which various cultures can differentiate), that ship sailed back in 3rd edition when we got Eberron Drow who don’t live underground, they live in the deep green forests of Xen’drik. So the Greenshade Drow are basically an FR variation on that concept.

Personally, I feel like this is a case of Eberron pulling a Dark Sun and calling a tail a leg because they share mechanics and all legs need to have a place in Eberron. Dark Sun doesn’t have the second clause, but it is NOTORIOUS for making elves, Halflings, dwarves, nigh unrecognizable so much so that they might as well be new stat blocks if it weren’t useful to just say “use stat block / character features for x to represent y”.

Eberron doesn’t do that too often with player character cultures, but they did it hard with Drow.
So these Lorendrow and Aevendrow are not just doing the heavy lifting of establishing Drow ≠ Evil Elf, but also establishing that Drow ≠ Obligate Underdark Elf. The hat is big enough that the Eberron Drow no longer looks like an odd culture out, since there are somewhat similar dark elf cultures in FR.

Besides, TES is still huge, and their Dunmer are not obligate underdark denizens; they’re dark of skin because they’re cursed by the old gods for their leaders attempting to become gods (actually not that far off from the story of Lolth), and thus burned ashen grey by the blight of Red Mountain.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

The cynic in me feels like this is prepping a backstory for drow for the Underdark TV show, to dilute the “demon-spider worshipper” vibe we’ve had since drow’s intro in Greyhawk.

 

[Azzy]

What would you have done?

Unfortunately, what I've done in my own settings wouldn't work for the FR—well, at least one of my solutions. Even back in high shools and the heady days of 2e, my friend and I wanted to do something different with the drow, so I pretty much ditched all the established AD&D canon (including Lolth). You couldn't do that with an established setting like the FR. In another setting, I kept the drow with the main of them still being demon-worshippers (with Lolth being one cult among many, like in 1e), but with other evil & non-evil off-shoots—like the peviously mentioned "snow elves" that were arctic/subarctic drow that lived mainly underground for half the year, while ranging out during the dark half).

It seems that WotC is doing something similar with the Aevendrow (pinching my ideas, lol), and I do like the previewed art for their settlement. However, I fear that they are just going to be "drow, but good™" with all the the complexity of a rock and be hippy Eilistraee worshippers (I've never liked what FR has done with its drow lore). The Lorendrow really give me pause—with all the bad tropes that drow have been saddled with, you want to put them in the jungle, too? That said, I really do like the new artwork for the Lolthite matron—far and away better than the stripperific S&M drow of yesteryear.

That said, I would have liked if they had expanded the lore of the Underdark drow first. Starting with Menzobarazen (or however you spell that), show that even the drow we know aren't all "lol(th), evil". Instead, have the ruling class be the Caligua-esque evil Lolthites with most of the rest of the populace downtrodden and trying to stay on the good side of their dictatorial leaders and not really giving a rat's patootie about the ruling class or the state cult. Sure, many are indoctrinated and swept up nationalistist pride, but many more are just trying to keep their heads down. Also showcase other Underdark drow cities and settlements—some that have either disavowed the Lolthite cult outright or only nominally pay lip service to Lolth (out of fear of reprisal from Lolthite cities). Some of the other settlements may have other cults (some just as bad as Lolth, some not bad at all), worship the Selderaine, or maybe even gods of other pantheons. And rather than be simply renegade "good drow", I'd have many of the non-Lolthite (or other evil cult) be more nuetral (with individuals ranging in any alignment). Moving away from Menzobarazzen (and the North Dark as a whole), showcase other regions of the Underdark and how their culture may vary from the cultures of the North Dark.

With that as the foundation, yes, go ahead and expand to some non-Underdark drow cultures. I'd still caution against making them "good drow" (not that they can't have cultures that tend towards altruism, just give them some complexity beyond just being the moral flipside of the Lolthite drow and all sunshine and rainbows). Think about how they interact with other cultures nearby (if there are other cultures nearby) and, especially, how they interact with non-drow elves. Are they reclusive, only living in remote areas (I'd keep them to places that are most always dark or at least have them only active at night in locales that that aren't so dark). Why are they reclusive? Have they been lumped in with the Lolthite drow after Lolth seduced the main branch into evil and are still stigmatized and discriminated by non-drow elves?

 

[Azzy]

The cynic in me feels like this is prepping a backstory for drow for the Underdark TV show, to dilute the “demon-spider worshipper” vibe we’ve had since drow’s intro in Greyhawk.

I don't thank that that's cynicism, though. WotC definitely wants to make the drow less problematic and they NEED to do that before drow show up on TV or in the theater. So, this is where we're at.

 

[reelo]

The "really high" elves.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

It is interesting how the portrayal of Erelhi Cinlu spurred the views of drow as a monolithic culture of drow worshippers. Is that the impression everyone got from a module that included a) non evil drow and b) religious divides ?

 

[Azzy]

It is interesting how the portrayal of Erelhi Cinlu spurred the views of drow as a monolithic culture of drow worshippers. Is that the impression everyone got from a module that included a) non evil drow and b) religious divides ?

I think that it's apparently the impression that Salvatore got and everything since Dritz has been influenced by that.