TSR Now it’s WotC’s Turn: WotC Moves Against TSR3

I guess after you provoke somebody enough, they’ll eventually bite back. The company has begun trademark cancellation procedures against the newest TSR.

TSR3 briefly filed for a court declaration on Dec 7th as to their ownership of the TSR trademarks — with an IndieGoGo campaign to fund it — and then voluntarily dismissed it a couple of days later on Dec 9th.

This filing is dated Dec 6th, the day before TSR3 launched its campaign.

In WotC’s response, they cite fraud as one of the causes of action, alleging that TSR3 misled the trademark office in its original application.

Mike Dunford, on Twitter, breaks down the action.

TSR - TSR3.5 Voluntarily Dismisses Lawsuit

A lawsuit filed by TSR3 against D&D owners Wizards of the Coast a few days ago was voluntarily dismissed. Dismissal without prejudice means that the suit can be filed again. The suit lasted two days from the 7th to the 9th of December. The IndieGoGo fundraiser to fund it is still running...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those...

www.enworld.org

 

[Staffan]

I don't have any of the reprinted TSR books that WotC put out. Is the logo in question in those products? The lawsuit claims continued use and lack of abandonment on WotC's part.

I don't have any of the books here to check, but as I recall Wizards kept using TSR's trade dress, including the logo, on AD&D (and Alternity, for that matter) product until the release of D&D 3.0. At that point, they stopped using the TSR logo on new things. They did, however, start selling PDFs of old material fairly quickly – I haven't been able to track down a date, but I did find a page with an FAQ that refers to a price change taking place in February 2001, which would indicate that they were selling PDFs at a lower price before that. So effectively, the trademark was in continuous use.

At least until 2009, when Wizards stopped selling PDFs in response to piracy that made the 4e PHB2 PHB available on torrent sites within days of its official release (or possibly even the same day or maybe even some days before), and didn't start again until 2013. That may or may not count as abandoning the trademark.

 

[darjr]

Here comes my official ampersand tattoo!

 

[Jer]

I don't have any of the reprinted TSR books that WotC put out. Is the logo in question in those products? The lawsuit claims continued use and lack of abandonment on WotC's part.

I do own a few different older products sold on DriveThru and most of them have the TSR logo intact on them - my copy of Chainmail has the Wizard logo, most of the rest have the diagonal TSR logo on them - the Star Frontiers stuff has that logo on it.

EDIT: Looks like the 1st edition Gamma World stuff has the man in the moon logo on it as well.

 

[darjr]

Hasn’t WotC reprinted, outside of drive thru, tsr era material? Didn’t that stuff have old logos and such?

 

[Parmandur]

I don't have any of the reprinted TSR books that WotC put out. Is the logo in question in those products? The lawsuit claims continued use and lack of abandonment on WotC's part.

They do.

 

[Abstruse]

The fraud claim kind of seals this one. LaNasa filed for the trademark knowing it was still in use by Wizards of the Coast. He cited the attempt by Evil Hat to register Star Frontiers in 2016. Star Frontiers was a big part of TSR3's marketing when they launched this past summer, just behind Giantland.

The biggest irony though? LaNasa's statements about the legacy disclaimer seal that he knew Wizards of the Coast was still using the trademark. The only way he'd know about the disclaimer is if he knew that Wizards was still selling those products and still using the trademarks.

So even if LaNasa could prove trademark dilution or abandonment by claiming that Jayson Elliot's use of the TSR name for TSR2 from 2009 to 2021 without action from Wizards of the Coast proved they abandoned the trademark, he's still going to get all of his claims to the trademark dismissed because he perjured himself in filing the applications.

I've also got a sneaking suspicion this isn't going to be the last of it either because trademark is only half of it. There's still the issue of the copyright on the artwork that LaNasa is using. If Wizards of the Coast's legal team is coming out swinging like this, I seriously doubt they're going to let that one stand.

The moral of this story: If the bear is sleeping, do not poke it.

 

[Umbran]

CR system is broken

Hey, it is a sandbox campaign, not tailored encounters.

I think they were suitably warned not to go to the Well of Law, because the Dragon Turtle that lived there.

This is what OSR folks would call "meaningful choices, with consequences".

 

[darjr]

For instance this miniature reprint.

TSR Silver Anniversary Miniature Reprints

Mini reprint: 6 of 8 boxes

rpggeek.com

 

[Umbran]

I've also got a sneaking suspicion this isn't going to be the last of it either because trademark is only half of it. There's still the issue of the copyright on the artwork that LaNasa is using. If Wizards of the Coast's legal team is coming out swinging like this, I seriously doubt they're going to let that one stand.

Meh. Using a protected artwork a couple of times without permission probably isn't much compared with lying to the USPTO.

 

[Jer]

Hasn’t WotC reprinted, outside of drive thru, tsr era material? Didn’t that stuff have old logos and such?

Even if it does, not I'm not sure that matters except as additional evidence. The fact that they're keeping books in print with those logos on them right now feels like a strong enough argument that the mark is still in use.

If it isn't then there's a whole lot of companies out there with only digital products who are going to be surprised by that idea (especially a whole lot of people in the multi-billion dollar video game industry, not to mention the streaming entertainment folks).