Old questions revisted [last: Sneak Attack] (Caliban please hop in and help out)

[Liquide]

OK lets see what are the questions that come up most of the time in my games then, I figure that these questions come up a lot in other peoples games as well.

When can I sneak attack?
You can sneak attack with any melee weapon (even if sneak attacking with a greatsword makes for a funny image), or with a ranged weapon if within 30 ft. of your opponent. And it needs to have a discernable anatomy (see further below), and you need to be able to strike a vital spot such as an organ in order for sneak attack damage to be allowed.

Ther are three occasions where you are allowed to sneak attack:

1. When you catch your opponent flat-footed This happens in the first round of combat before your opponent is allowed to act on his initiative. So in essence if you are before your opponent in the initiative order in the first round of combat and are able to attack him/her you are allowed to add sneak attack damage to your attack if you hit.
   Exception If you are ambushing an opponent and get a suprise round and your opponent you can in theory get off two sneak attacks (or as many as you have attacks) due to the flat-footed rule.
   
2. When your opponent is denied Dex bonus to AC This happens either whenever you opponent have a Dex bonus to AC or not. If the opponent has a Dex penalty to AC or no Dex bonus at all you are not allowed to sneak attack, since even due to the fact that the opponent doesn't have a Dex bonus to AC it doesn't mean they are denied a Dex bonus to AC.
   
3. When you are flanking an opponent This happens when you and a friend (or foe for that matter) is attacking an opponent in melee from opposite sides.
   Note A person that is shooting can never flank, only melee combatants can flank an opponent.
   
   [/list=1]
   On a note: If the DM says you are allowed to add sneak attack damage to your attack when you ask you are allowed to do it. Sometimes he might say no even if it seems likes you should be allowed to then see the the below two questions for clarification.
   
   The follow-up questions would be these.
   
   When are my opponents denied their Dex bonus to AC?
   (note even if you doesn't have a Dex bonus you can be in a situation where you would have lost one if you had one so in theory it should be: When would my opponents be subject to a situation where they would be denied their Dex bonus to AC, whenever they had one or not?)
   
   Well the rules say it like this :
   

   quoted from the rules Sometimes you can't use your Dexterity Bonus (if you have one). The AC bonus you get for a high Dexterity represents your ability to dodge incoming blows. If you cannot react to a blow, you cannot use your Dexterity bonus to AC. (If you don't have a Dexterity bonus, nothing happens)

   
   Let us throw out a few examples where you are denied your Dexterity bonus then.
   1. An opponent shoots you from behind that you didn't know was there!
      
   2. An opponent sneaks up on you from behind using Move Silently and you fail your listen check horribly!
      
   3. An Invisible opponent attacks you in melee!
      
   4. You lose track of a goblin in the woods (hide), that attacks you from its hidden spot when he notices that you didn't see him!
      
      [/list=1]
      
      
      Why wasn't I allowed to Sneak Attack?
      Many reasons mate
      1. The opponent is immune to Critical hits.
         
      2. The opponent is either an Undead, Construct, Ooze, Plant or Incorporeal creature. (either is immune to critical hits, has no discernable anatomy or both)
         
      3. The opponent wears armor of fortification and therefore is immune to your sneak attacks. (or partially immune I'm not totally sure how the percentage chance works against sneak attacks)
         
      4. You are trying to sneak attack the tail of a Red Dragon Great Wyrm. (OK you can prolly do this if you have a nice DM, but last time I checked there are no vital organs in a tail on a Dragon, but who really knows)
         [/list=1]
         
         Well next I'll adress the Monk (if something is way off above just correct me, especially you Caliban).

 

[Nail]

When can I sneak attack?
An opponent shoots you from behind that you didn't know was there!

is this always true, even in the middle of combat?

Let's say round three, a fighter is in combat with some poor orc. At that moment, another orc (a rogue) comes out of hiding from "behind" the fighter, and shoots at him with a bow (from less than 30' away). Does this second orc get a sneak attack?

Things to concider:

• The fighter is not flat-footed. He's been fighting for at least 2 rounds already.
• There is no facing in 3e D&D, so the orc rogue can't shoot the fighter in the back.

 

[Pielorinho]

Liquide, I think you're making this a little more complicated than it should be. There are only two occasions on which a character may sneak attack:
-The target is theoretically denied a dex bonus; or
-The target is flanked.

Note that a target with a dex of 3 is still theoretically denied a dex bonus when she is flatfooted, under most circumtances, and can be sneak-attacked.

I say it this way because in some cases, a flatfooted character is not denied a dex bonus -- rogues and monks both get this power, I believe. They are still flatfooted, and therefore don't threaten the area around them, but they can't be SA. You don't want to be SAing off whether the target is flatfooted, therefore.

I generally consider an opponent that you're not aware of to be effectively invisible to you, meaning that you're denied your dex bonus against this opponent; like invisibility, you can try to spot the opponent immediately after the opponent tries to attack you, so they don't get iterative SA against you.

All your caveats in the beginning -- about the target needing vitals etc. -- are spot on.

Daniel

 

[Dr. NRG]

"Things to concider:

The fighter is not flat-footed. He's been fighting for at least 2 rounds already.

There is no facing in 3e D&D, so the orc rogue can't shoot the fighter in the back."

The fighter is not flat footed, on that we can agree. He could, however, be denied his dexterity bonus against an opponent he has not successfully spotted. Whether the opponent is hiding, invisible, or ethereal doesn't matter. While there isn't facing, there is still spotting, which is the mechanism that comes into play here.

 

[drnuncheon]

Re: Re: Old questions revisted [last: Sneak Attack] (Caliban please hop in and help out)

is this always true, even in the middle of combat?

Let's say round three, a fighter is in combat with some poor orc. At that moment, another orc (a rogue) comes out of hiding from "behind" the fighter, and shoots at him with a bow (from less than 30' away). Does this second orc get a sneak attack?

Things to concider:

• The fighter is not flat-footed. He's been fighting for at least 2 rounds already.
• There is no facing in 3e D&D, so the orc rogue can't shoot the fighter in the back.

Third thing to consider, though: if the rogue has 100% concealment from the fighter, he is effectively invisible with regards to said fighter - and invisible attackers deny their targets a dex bonus.

J

 

[Liquide]

Liquide, I think you're making this a little more complicated than it should be. There are only two occasions on which a character may sneak attack:
-The target is theoretically denied a dex bonus; or
-The target is flanked.

Actually there are three occasions in which this can occur.
-The target is theoretically denied a dex bonus; or
-The target is flanked.
-The target is flat-footed (I'll explain how this differ from denied Dex to AC below)

Note that a target with a dex of 3 is still theoretically denied a dex bonus when she is flatfooted, under most circumtances, and can be sneak-attacked.

I say it this way because in some cases, a flatfooted character is not denied a dex bonus -- rogues and monks both get this power, I believe. They are still flatfooted, and therefore don't threaten the area around them, but they can't be SA. You don't want to be SAing off whether the target is flatfooted, therefore.

Actually they are considered flat-footed and does not lose Dex bonus to AC BUT here comes a little note. They are considered flat-footed until they have acted and is therefore subject to Sneak Attacks even if they aren't denied their Dex bonus to AC (in the case of 6+ level Rogues the Rogue Sneak Attacker has to be 4 levels higher then their target, side-note: ask dm if you are allowed to roll sneak attack damage)

I generally consider an opponent that you're not aware of to be effectively invisible to you, meaning that you're denied your dex bonus against this opponent; like invisibility, you can try to spot the opponent immediately after the opponent tries to attack you, so they don't get iterative SA against you.

All your caveats in the beginning -- about the target needing vitals etc. -- are spot on.

Daniel

Thank you lad!

 

[Mulkhoran]

Actually they are considered flat-footed and does not lose Dex bonus to AC BUT here comes a little note. They are considered flat-footed until they have acted and is therefore subject to Sneak Attacks even if they aren't denied their Dex bonus to AC (in the case of 6+ level Rogues the Rogue Sneak Attacker has to be 4 levels higher then their target, side-note: ask dm if you are allowed to roll sneak attack damage)

I'm sorry, but this just isn't correct. What Pielorinho said was right. A 3rd level rogue gets Uncanny Dodge, which prevents him from losing his Dexterity bonus when caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. Even though the rogue is considered flat-footed at the beginning of the round until he acts, and thus doesn't threaten the area around him, he is not subject to Sneak Attack.

Also, this is *not* the ability that is negated by higher level rogues. That is the 6th level Uncanny Dodge, which prevents you from being flanked except by a rogue of 4 levels or higher.

 

[Caliban]

Actually there are three occasions in which this can occur.
-The target is theoretically denied a dex bonus; or
-The target is flanked.
-The target is flat-footed (I'll explain how this differ from denied Dex to AC below)




Actually they are considered flat-footed and does not lose Dex bonus to AC BUT here comes a little note. They are considered flat-footed until they have acted and is therefore subject to Sneak Attacks even if they aren't denied their Dex bonus to AC (in the case of 6+ level Rogues the Rogue Sneak Attacker has to be 4 levels higher then their target, side-note: ask dm if you are allowed to roll sneak attack damage)

As both Pielorinho and Mulkhoran pointed out, this isn't actually true. Being flat-footed by itself has no effect on whether or not you can be sneak attacked. It's losing your Dex while you are flat-footed that allows you to be sneak attacked.

Check the description of sneak attack on page 47 of the PHB. It never mentions flat footed at all.

So a rogue or barbarian may be flat-footed, but still have their Dex bonus to AC, and thus not be a valid target for sneak attack.

Also keep in mind that any amount of concealment prevents you from sneak attacking someone. obscuring mist and blur are both low level spells that shut down sneak attacks.

Other than that, everything in your original post looks good!

 

[Plane Sailing]

Also keep in mind that any amount of concealment prevents you from sneak attacking someone. obscuring mist and blur are both low level spells that shut down sneak attacks.

And not forgetting non-magical forms of concealment - leafy bushes or smoking torches which give even the minimum concealment will stop sneak attacks happening.

Cheers

 

[Liquide]

OK Ignore what I said about flat-footed then , my bad and posting late at night can make for odd judgement I guess.