D&D (2024) One D&D playtest, abilities that recharge when you roll initiative.

[Charlaquin]

What is the purpose of limited resources, from a design intent I mean? If it is make the big fights cooler because the players will save their strongest abilities for the BBEG, it's terrible design. Players don't like losing and sometimes "easy" fights go bad, so there's no guarantee those big guns won't come out against the little fish. There are alternative systems you could use to better ensure the big fights are cooler.

The adventuring day and resource management are so estranged from the most common playstyle that I think now is the time to quietly kill it.

Resource management is the primary source of challenge in D&D gameplay. Individual encounters (combat or otherwise) are almost never particularly challenging; the challenge is in managing your limited resources; some over the course of an encounter, some over the course of an adventuring day, and some over the course of an entire adventure.

 

[Charlaquin]

I personally dislike the “game” of deciding which encounters are important enough for me to expend my best resources. It’s why I avoid casters. My favorite mechanic is Reckless Attacks; I can use it as often as I want but it’s risky to do so.

More like that, please.

The neat thing is, if you spend your best resources on an unimportant fight, you will finish it faster, and be left with more of your other resources that the fight would otherwise have consumed, which you’ll then be able to use to get through the important fight you were worried about saving your most important resources for.

Resource management games are a lot less stressful and a lot more fun when you shift from thinking about how best to conserve your resources to thinking about how best to use them. And it’ll make you better at them to boot. Any spell slots you have left when you start a long rest are spell slots wasted that adventuring day.

EDIT: That said, I would also like more at-will powers that come with a risk or tax you in some way! Variety is the spice of gameplay.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Resource management is the primary source of challenge in D&D gameplay. Individual encounters (combat or otherwise) are almost never particularly challenging; the challenge is in managing your limited resources; some over the course of an encounter, some over the course of an adventuring day, and some over the course of an entire adventure.

Which is why I play a lot of rogues.

It’s funny because I enjoy managing/conserving torches, rations, arrows, even HP.

But spell slots? I hate it.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Obviously the character is too tired to use that ability again until they’ve rested.

Oh of course, that's the in-game narrative reason for the rest and I'm right there with you. But I believe (unless I've lost track of the original thread point along the way-- entirely possible)... the question was whether Rests in the game were called for due to narrative or due to metagame considerations.

And in that regard my point was that when players call for rests, my personal take is that its due in that moment to the need to refresh abilities (with the "oh, my PC is tired" narrative dressing it up)... as opposed to players feeling in character in the moment "Wow, I'm exhausted, and I have these cuts and bruises... let's take a few moments to clean ourselves up before moving on." And the reasoning I gave is that players don't request to take Short Rests just after arbitrary moments of the day when they have no mechanics to refresh but it "makes sense" in the story... it's only when they have the need to refresh mechanics that all of sudden they now need to take one.

Other people might very well say that it's only the incidents that cause the loss of mechanical options that become the indication that the PCs are tired... but I personally find that awfully coincidental and thus am less willing to suspend disbelief. From my perspective in that regards... a party of PCs could march for 8 hours straight but not be tired and have no need to rest after it... but then get into a combat right after where they lose some hit points and now they're suddenly tired and need a short rest? Heh heh... that seems kinda squiffy to me.

Might not bother other people or that they find the justification absolutely okay. Which is cool... folks like what they like. But me? That just seems a forced justification to avoid saying it's a metagame consideration. But you know... if others don't see it as a force justification then it's not surprising nor incorrect when they say it isn't a metagame consideration either. We just see it differently, with neither side being right and neither side being wrong, it's all just perspective.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I really like 3.5e take on this.
You missed your perception/insight check to notice danger?
you can roll initiative after you remove the axe from your head.

3.x's flat-footed just encouraged ambush-alphastriking even more... I don't think that's a healthy gameplay loop, because similarly, if you do it to the players, they are dead. Except the Wizard, who had contingencies and stoneskin and whatever going.

 

[Maxperson]

Except the Wizard, who had contingencies and stoneskin and whatever going.

Celerity was the bomb.

 

[Reynard]

That's not how it happens in 5e, though. How it happens in 5e is that the assassin goes to strike(not strikes). Then initiative is rolled and if the assassin loses he is seen coming out of hiding before he can actually take the swing. Since his victim has great reflexes and won initiative, he goes first.

Initiative is rolled when hostilities begin, not when an attack happens.

No. Initiative happens when the GM says combat starts. That is an important distinction. As GM, if the PC is unaware of the assassin then you can call for combat to begin AFTER the assassin strikes.

 

[Reynard]

Resource management is the primary source of challenge in D&D gameplay. Individual encounters (combat or otherwise) are almost never particularly challenging; the challenge is in managing your limited resources; some over the course of an encounter, some over the course of an adventuring day, and some over the course of an entire adventure.

I don't think that's true from a modern perspective. Not only do people generally not play it that way, the actual systems in play don't really support it (at least not to the degree earlier editions did).

 

[Charlaquin]

Which is why I play a lot of rogues.

It’s funny because I enjoy managing/conserving torches, rations, arrows, even HP.

But spell slots? I hate it.

I get that. I’m not a big fan of spell slots either. IMO the problem is when most of your combat power is managed on an adventuring day basis. If you’ve got a few daily powers, and a few encounter powers, and a few at-will powers, managing the daily ones isn’t such a burden. When you’ve got a ton of daily powers and little to nothing else, it’s a pain.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't think that's true from a modern perspective. Not only do people generally not play it that way, the actual systems in play don't really support it (at least not to the degree earlier editions did).

I think the systems of 5e absolutely do support it, if you play them as written, though I agree it seems the majority of people do not. Maybe they’ll try to change 1D&D to more closely match typical 5e play patterns in that sense, but I suspect the resource management cow is too sacred to slaughter.