D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Cleric

[Chaosmancer]

I am a little torn on the new Divine Intervention. Literally 2 sessions ago the 10th level party's cleric made a last ditch effort to save a village of 500 people from an attack on all sides. The party knew they could take on the force but didn't think they could save the vilalge, but the cleric hit the number and teleported the whole village away to safety.

Its a story I know will be shared with my group for years to come. So I am loathe to remove that kind of epic once in a blue moon power.

On the other hand, that old version really did require a lot of DM fiat, the new version is clean, easy to use, but still solidly powerful. I could also argue the 20th level version is a bit broken, we have already noted concerns about the sorceror getting the ability to bypass the safeguards of wish, and this does the very same thing.

I think I agree with Titan in potentially allowing both.

I've had a lot of clerics, but actually it was my own cleric that was the only one I've seen attempt to use this feature... and it was during downtime where I spent a month praying every day to bring an NPC back from the dead.

I also have thought about taking the old version and tying it to the Piety system from Theros. This gives two advantages I think, with one of them being that now any pious enough worshipper might occassionally get a miracle, which is very nice for non-cleric pious characters.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Anyone notice that Turned undead no longer run away from you? I guess they just cower in a frightened, incapacitated state.

I'm okay with this. It's easier to deal with.

 

[James Gasik]

Anyone notice that Turned undead no longer run away from you? I guess they just cower in a frightened, incapacitated state.

I'm okay with this. It's easier to deal with.

Yeah, I always hated Turn Undead because any Undead that are turned would tend to wander off and draw in other enemies.

 

[Chaosmancer]

They still CAN run, they just aren't forced to.

 

[DEFCON 1]

On the other hand, that old version really did require a lot of DM fiat, the new version is clean, easy to use, but still solidly powerful.

I for one believe the game (and indeed all RPGs) would be better with more DM Fiat, not less. Limiting things to only what the game mechanics say you can do keeps everyone from being able to act and think outside the box.

 

[renbot]

I think Preserve Life is too expensive, especially given what it is replacing. I think it should always cost one CD and scale with level. I'm thinking PB-1 which is not a formula used in the game so far so it would probably have to be written "Expend CD to create a first level spell slot...at 5th level a second level slot" etc.

 

[OB1]

Healing word is, pretty much, essential to the game. To remove it cure wounds would have to be boosted to cope with incoming damage.
Now, you could drop healing word to get a specific style of 5e. A much more gritty game but you really should make the action economy of healing work.
Suggestions, to that on making a grittier game in the DMG would be beneficial. As would mechanic to make dropping to 0 more meaningful in game.

Been using the following house rules on dropping to 0 HP for about a year, and it's worked exceptionally well to make dropping to 0HP much scarier without ending up in a death spiral.

Dropping to 0HP - You are dazed and can no longer concentrate on spells. This condition remains after gaining HP. Players can make a DC19 Con save at the end of each of their turns to remove the effect. Magic such as lesser restoration can end the effect early.

This does two things, it makes PCs at 0HP valid targets (since they can still act) and reduces their effectiveness both while at 0HP and after. Melee characters are naturally better at getting out of the dazed condition on their own, while others may require some resources to end it.

 

[Mistwell]

I appreciate how the intro to the Cleric class describes an inclusive narrative that allows nontheistic Cleric character concepts as well.

"Another immortal entity" can be an abstract "cosmic power" from the Xanathars Cleric description.

The intro emphasizes the Outer Planes themselves are the source of divine magic.

Deities in the Outer Planes draw their divine magic from the Outer Planes as well.

A Cleric can revere a deity who personifies an Outer Plane archetype, since divine magic itself is sacred. Also, an other Cleric can revere an other kind of entity.

This freedom to let the players decide the character concepts that they want to play, resolves a longstanding frustration with the 5e (and 4e) Cleric class.

The intro is actually more inclusive, in the sense that players from different reallife cultures can understand various sacred concepts in ways that make more sense and are more relatable to their own cultural perspectives.

Was waiting for your thoughts on this. Always interesting.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Been using the following house rules on dropping to 0 HP for about a year, and it's worked exceptionally well to make dropping to 0HP much scarier without ending up in a death spiral.

Dropping to 0HP - You are dazed and can no longer concentrate on spells. This condition remains after gaining HP. Players can make a DC19 Con save at the end of each of their turns to remove the effect. Magic such as lesser restoration can end the effect early.

This does two things, it makes PCs at 0HP valid targets (since they can still act) and reduces their effectiveness both while at 0HP and after. Melee characters are naturally better at getting out of the dazed condition on their own, while others may require some resources to end it.

I just don't get the need. I've never had players who were nonchalant about dropping to zero during a fight. Never had someone say "Don't worry guys, I'm just at zero and bleeding out, I'm perfectly safe"

I'm not saying I don't like the idea of using the dazed condition at zero, so the PC can still do something. Maybe even keep it for a turn after they get back to their feet. It could be fun. But I've never felt this drive to make zero scary. Dropping to zero is scary for my players.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

we just need negative HPs back and healing word is good.
If someone drops you to -17, you still need 18HP worth of healing to get the person up.
If they are still alive at -17 that is. subject to balancing.

Please not.

Just remove it or leave it be. Don't make it a trap option.