D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Cleric

[Kobold Stew]

The Cleric was already in a good place. My thoughts are all relatively minor:

• The Divine Order choice is great. Clean design, though I wish the Thaumaturge option still gave the extra Channel Divinity.
• Divine Intervention (level 10) is much cleaner than before -- your god gives you a free spell, once per long rest, when needed. That's easy to put into play without suddenly involving percentage dice for a chance for something.
• Trickery domain now is explicit that you can give Stealth advantage to "yourself or a willing creature". That's a change from 2014, and a good one (I've houseruled it that way anyhow when I DM). But it does mean that similar language will need to be implemented across the game, as "willing creature" now explicitly excludes one's self. (where will that have the biggest impact?)
• Trickster's Magic is a bit underwhelming. Unless I'm mistaken, the only illusion spells available are: Silence (on the Divine list) and a few Trickster-only spells: Disguise self, Invisibility, hypnotic Pattern, and (at level 9) Mislead. (Are there others?). I can certainly see it being used, but it is more limited than the wording implies.
• Weapon Mastery for the War domain. Good.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yeah, I am a little disappointed in Thaumaturge. It feels a bit weaker than Protector. I think it needs either another skill, or a bonus spell to make up for the Channel Divinity going to everyone.

LOVE the changes the Divine Intervention. That is reliable, powerful, and just great.

Not sure about Commune. It is fine, but meh.

I think Divine Spark is now way too weak. (will get into that in a moment)


Trickster's Magic is underwhelming I think, but also.... bonus action invisibility and bonus action Hypnotic Pattern are not bad spells. That is the entire list, which feels too small, but the few spells it works on are good. And in exchange for that AMAZING Invoke duplicity? I'll take it.

///

But.... I am utterly confused by one thing.

Why does Life Domain suck SO MUCH.

Divine Spark is a ranged 1d8+mod heal. Which is basically just a ranged cure wounds. Now, if you have disciple of life, then cure wounds is better, becoming 1d8+mod+3. However, as has been discussed many times before, the healing just isn't that good once you get past low levels. Disciple is interesting, but overall it is a drop in the bucket compared to what you need for healing.

Blessed Healer just gives that drop to the cleric as well. I mean, sure, I might regain 5 hp if I cast Aura of Vitality, but that's not exactly worth a 6th level ability.

And now Preserve Life can let you spend a channel divinity per spell level to cast an abjuration spell for free. And it starts becoming a bizzare dance. a touch 1d8+mod+3 is better than 1d8+mod at range sometimes, but it isn't better than 2d8+mod at 7th level (which is WAY too late) so you don't actually ever want to use Preserve Life to cast a 1st level healing spell, unless it is the bonus action Healing word? But every time you use Divine Spark to heal, you don't use Blessed Healer OR Disciple of Life, making them worthless. Now, maybe sanctuary or protection from good and evil could be good uses of it, but are those worth not having your extra healing?

And is there anything you could cast as a 4th level spell that is worth 16d8+20 healing NOT being used?

Like, I have a quibble or two with the other subclasses (Trickster's Magic being highly limited, being uncertain is Corona of Light is worth your action for disadvantage against damage spells alone) but the Life Domain just seems fundamentally broken, because it is constantly fighting itself.

And the other Channel Divinities?

Invoke Duplicity is superior to just about every Channel Divinity option in the base class.
Guided Strikes is a Reaction "you hit" and is way better than the divine Spark damage most of the time.
Radiance of the Dawn is better than the divine spark damage at every level, in every way.

But I just can't tell if a few extra casts of Sanctuary or Shield of Faith is actually that good for the Life Cleric.

 

[Gradine]

I will say that I will miss the Knowledge and Tempest domains. Especially Knowledge had a really cool vibe that isn't really matched elsewhere.

I would gladly give up Life for Knowledge, but I also know they'd never do that in a million years.

 

[mellored]

I will say that I will miss the Knowledge and Tempest domains.

You can still use them.

A main reason they switched the subclass levels back, is to keep compatibility with older subclasses.

Though it now starts at level 3.

 

[cbwjm]

One thing I do like about the onednd cleric is the holy order, I'd done similar years ago, making life a caster instead of a combat cleric by swapping the armour and divine strike for a cantrip (typically any cantrip associated with your domain) and potent cantrip.

The only thing I'd really change about the cleric, and I'm aware it's a me thing and it probably in the minority, is make the holy order the subclass and the domain a small impact on the class, get a few spells, a channel divinity, but otherwise your holy order determines how you serve your god as a crusader, a holy avenger, or a mystic, etc.

 

[Weiley31]

I like the Holy/Divine Order feature introduced to the Cleric with the recent UAs. Heck, WoTC team must like the idea a lot too since they pretty much gave it to the UA Packet 6 Druid as well with their Primal Order feature.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I will say that I will miss the Knowledge and Tempest domains. Especially Knowledge had a really cool vibe that isn't really matched elsewhere.

I would gladly give up Life for Knowledge, but I also know they'd never do that in a million years.

I think we can see where the Knowledge cleric went. I agree that it was a great Domain.

In the last playtest, when they introduced Holy Orders, one of the options was Scholar. It gave you INT-based sckills with a bonus equal to +WIS. That's clearly riffing on the core gain from the Knowledge cleric. When they combined Thaumaturge and Scholar into a single choice (my guess is that Scholar "scored" lowest), the "flavour" stayed Thaumaturge, and what had been the Knowledge Domain, having transitioned through an unsuccessful Holy Order, has now evaporated.

Incidentally, I always though Knowledge cleric was the go-to specialty for low-intelligence monster species. The Knowledge of the Ages ability allowed them to overcome any skill or tool deficits, on an day-by-day basis.

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

Honestly I like all of the changes to cleric with the exception of one thing:
War domain needs extra attack at 6th level. I wish they'd replace the bonus action limited attack with something else minor.

 

[mellored]

Honestly I like all of the changes to cleric with the exception of one thing:
War domain needs extra attack at 6th level. I wish they'd replace the bonus action limited attack with something else minor.

Bonus attack now refreshed on a short rest now.

So you can attack twice most of the time from level 1.

Or you can cast a spell and then attack.

 

[Yaarel]

I appreciate how the intro to the Cleric class describes an inclusive narrative that allows nontheistic Cleric character concepts as well.

"Another immortal entity" can be an abstract "cosmic power" from the Xanathars Cleric description.

The intro emphasizes the Outer Planes themselves are the source of divine magic.

Deities in the Outer Planes draw their divine magic from the Outer Planes as well.

A Cleric can revere a deity who personifies an Outer Plane archetype, since divine magic itself is sacred. Also, an other Cleric can revere an other kind of entity.

This freedom to let the players decide the character concepts that they want to play, resolves a longstanding frustration with the 5e (and 4e) Cleric class.

The intro is actually more inclusive, in the sense that players from different reallife cultures can understand various sacred concepts in ways that make more sense and are more relatable to their own cultural perspectives.