Please Critique my House Ruled Crossbows.

[Hackenslash]

Hello All,

I have always felt that Crosbows were poorly represented in all editions of DnD and since 3.5 has now come out there has been little change. The Bow is far superior with it's ranges and extra attacks per round. Now this may be fair enough, but that leaves the Crossbow out as a viable ranged weapon for characters to choose, well why bother when you can use a Bow ??? Now alot of this is to do with the rules on Page 113 of the 3.5 PH, stateing that All Cross Bows require an "Action" to load, typically standard or full round for heavy crossbows. This essentially means that a Character can not use all his attacks to fire his Crossbow and is limited to One attack per round or with a heavy cross bow one attack every 2 rounds (as it takes a full round to load). All of this is fine, but the damage dealt is just not worth it. So I propose to keep the rules as they are but increase the damage for cross bows to a more beefy level as follows:

Heavy Cross Bow : 2d8 +3 per Bolt.

Light Cross Bow : 1d10 +2 per Bolt.

Hand Cross Bow : 1d6 +1 per Bolt.

What do all you ENWorlders think of my changes ?

What other changes could I make instead of these ones, or do most of you feel that Cross Bows are fine the way they are ??

Thanks for any replys. Cheers !!!

 

[DanMcS]

A crossbow is essentially a bow firing small arrows with a built-in strength bonus. Make them do a d6 plus an appropriate strength bonus and it works well, so a light is a d6+2 and a heavy is a d6+4. (I think).

 

[Obryn]

Well, they're already simple weapons that strength penalties don't affect - that helps a lot.

Instead of increasing damage, I'd give them armor penetration abilities. Say, a light crossbow ignores 2 points of AC from Armor or Natural Armor, while a heavy crossbow ignores 4 points. If you give them damage bonuses this high, every rogue, wizard, sorceror, and cleric out there is going to get one and do huge damage.

Just an idea.

-O

 

[Blacksad]

Most change on cross bow make them too good at low level, and still bad at high level, so why not add the secondary Bab bonus to damage?

i.e. a fighter with a +6/+1 Bab would add +1 to damage

 

[Hackenslash]

Interesting Idea !!!

Thanks for the replys: Seems I have to go back to the drawing board, but I still feel like there is something missing from crossbows. They are definitely the poor relations of normal Bows. I am not sure that I subscribe to the "simple weapon theory" as cross bows were invented way after the Bow to counteract the threat of plated armor etc...so if anything they are the more complex weapon. Maybe easier to use for the inexperienced but by no means simple. I am inclined to go with Obryn's theory in that they could have the old vs Armor pluses from the 1st edition. OR Maybe the secondary Bab Bonus might work but would not allow the user to get any extra benefit for a while. No I think in general I would like an immediate bonus available from 1st level, so maybe an extra few points of damage and the Armor penetration ability, would do nicely, after all it will only ever be one attack a round anyway with the current rulings on loading crossbows etc. So I think my revised crossbow damage would be as follows:

Heavy CrossBow : 2d6 : +4 Armor Penetration Bonus to hit armor wearing characters, if AC is not from armor then no bonus applys.

Light CrossBow : 1d10 : +2 Armor Penetration Bonus to hit armor wearing characters, if AC is not from armor then no bonus applys.

Hand CrossBow : 1d6 : +1 Armor Penetration Bonus to hit armor wearing characters, if AC is not from armor then no bonus applys.

*Note. Opponents of the Crossbow wielding character must be wearing actual physical armor for the wielder to get the armor penetration bonus. Dexterity and Magic armor or sheild bonuses from spells and other such effects like deflection bonuses would not be effected by the Crossbow Armor Penetration Bonus. However the crossbow would still get it's armor penetration bonus against Magically enhanced armor or shields, eg. Full Plate. +2.

 

[DreamChaser]

with the armor penetration, why would anyone not carry a crossbow?

DC

 

[Hackenslash]

Hmmm...ok good point....but !

Well for one thing, you can not get multiple attacks with a crossbow, and sometimes not even an attack every round, like with a heavy crossbow for instance. Also all the bow feats are primarily for normal "strung" bows not crossbows. So while I would admit to making crossbows more desirable, I still think that a true Bowman would go for the Bow and not a Cross bow even with the armor reduction. Plus that bonus would get less effective the more you go up in levels and the CR's of the monsters increase, it would be more of a decent back up weapon then as opposed to a primary unless magical bonuses are applied, then who knows !! Hope this clarifys my line of thinking a little better.

 

[Coredump]

IIRC, the Xbow is a simple weapon,and the longbow is a martial weapon.
This reflects history fairly well. (actually, that would make the longbow more like an exotic weapon) The advantage of a Xbow is for militia, or rogues, or wizards, etc. Sure, if you can use a longbow, it is better than a Xbow.


.

 

[Blacksad]

IIRC, the Xbow is a simple weapon,and the longbow is a martial weapon.
This reflects history fairly well. (actually, that would make the longbow more like an exotic weapon) The advantage of a Xbow is for militia, or rogues, or wizards, etc. Sure, if you can use a longbow, it is better than a Xbow.


.

I though that the bow was one of the most primitive weapon and fairly used in all cultures, while the X-bow require some skill if you do not want to be hurt while using it (with funny effect like the arrow doing a loop) or if you do not want to break it.

 

[Coredump]

A short bow is easier to use than a longbow. the english longbowmen were trained for YEARS to be decent at what they did.

The advent of the Xbow meant that anyone could be handed one and do some damage; it was a very big change to the battlefield. It is dirt simple to use, and I have never heard of anything like the 'loop' effect you mention.

yeah, the bow has been around for a long time, but it still took more effort to learn than a Xbow.

,'