[Polyhedron] Are women interested in this type of fantasy?

[jdavis]

I don't see any problem with saying that Men and women are different, they are, brain function may differ too, that's fine, but in gaming or real life what does that have to do with something like falling in love? Find some research out there that states you can predetermine who somebody will fall in love with based on brain function and then you have something that applies. Lets face it it doesn't matter how the question gets answered because a person really doesn't know if they would fall in love with the other person or not, they have never met them. The circumstances of the first meeting of the two in question may effect the first impression but it is not going to be the only influence on the situation. What if the question was "would you fall in love with a high school dropout?" Can you honestly make a yes or no statement that a whole gender would not fall in love based on one variable? Maybe we should ask all the women who have rescued somewhat ineffectual men what they thought of them 30 days after the rescue. How would they know if they would like them before they ever met them?

 

[Farganger]

I asked my wife whether, if she were on an adventure with a man and she had to rescue him at some point, she would be interested in him romantically. Just out of curiosity.

To my surprise, her answer was a flat, no hesitation "no". She didn't even bother to qualify or temper the statement with some hedge language (maybe, perhaps, if, etc).

It surprised me because my wife is probably the most strong-willed women I know, and she's into Karate, etc. Makes me glad I was in the Marines

I asked my wife, who plays in the Saturday game that I DM, the same question and was interested, if not as surprised as you, that her answer was also an emphatic and immediate "No."

My wife is very strong-willed as well, Yale-educated and quite successful both professionally and creatively. The reason I was not as surprised is that she generally finds "neediness" an annoying trait, and values self-reliance. (In game, most of her PCs react somewhat negatively to male or female NPCs asking for help, and typically lend assistance, if they do, after a well chosen barb or two.)

Although not the most rugged of individuals, I too am often glad that I spent four years in the Marines and established some "street cred."

 

[SemperJase]

Once you're talking about a rare example (most women aren't going on "adventures" just like most men aren't), then I think you need to take your rulebook of expected behavior and throw it out.

This whole post I have been speaking in generalities. I apologize for not saying "most" or "generally" to qualify every statements.

I do believe that women have certain tendancies as well as men. Let me state for the record, I do believe that there are exceptions to those tendancies as well. You can still look at groups as a whole and try to figure out how individuals will react. Marketers do it everyday.

 

[kenjib]

I asked my wife, who plays in the Saturday game that I DM, the same question and was interested, if not as surprised as you, that her answer was also an emphatic and immediate "No."

My wife is very strong-willed as well, Yale-educated and quite successful both professionally and creatively. The reason I was not as surprised is that she generally finds "neediness" an annoying trait, and values self-reliance. (In game, most of her PCs react somewhat negatively to male or female NPCs asking for help, and typically lend assistance, if they do, after a well chosen barb or two.)

Although not the most rugged of individuals, I too am often glad that I spent four years in the Marines and established some "street cred."

And men complain about "high maintenance" women too. I still think that it's the concept of ineffectual that's the problem here, not the issue of rescuing. Ineffectual people are undesirable as love interests for both men and women, regardless of whether or not they have been rescued.

 

[jdavis]

And men complain about "high maintenance" women too. I still think that it's the concept of ineffectual that's the problem here, not the issue of rescuing. Ineffectual people are undesirable as love interests for both men and women, regardless of whether or not they have been rescued.

We really don't have a context for the term somewhat ineffectual. If it is a general term then I have to agree that very few people of either sex are attracted to people who are completly inept in life and have no real value as a human being. But if you are talking about Situational Ineffectuallity then that is a whole different subject. If the person in question is just not able to defeat overwhelming odds because he doesn't have a laser gun like everybody else does then he would be somewhat ineffectual in this situation but not in general.

It also seems to me that women saying that they definatly would not fall in love with a man they had to rescue goes againt the nurturing women stereotype this all started out with, it's pretty hard to nurture strong independant hero types who do not need any help in dealing with their problems. You ask the same people if they would want to be a weak inneffectual person who needs rescued by a hero who is obviously much better than they are and they would answer no to that too. Your not going to get much love for the inept from either side of this.

Of course women fall in love with weak inneffectual men every day on this planet, they are called babies, you don't get any weaker or inneffectual than a newborn baby but they don't seem to have much of a problem getting people to oggle and preen them. Yes that's not romantic love but I'm being sarcastic so it's ok.

 

[Emiricol]

I'd hardly consider "rescuing" the same as "nurturing". But either way, yeah I think people don't much care for the totally inept.

Babies and children are, for what I think are pretty obvious reasons, completely different than grown adults. That's not a good analogy.

 

[jdavis]

I'd hardly consider "rescuing" the same as "nurturing". But either way, yeah I think people don't much care for the totally inept.

I actually was talking about the helping of a person in need in general, going beyond the fact that they needed rescued into the fact that they needed somebody to take care of them as they were inept. Mothering them if you will. A good friend of mines wife mothers the crap out of him and it's what he likes so much about her, it's not that he is in any way inept it's just that she likes to take care of everything for him so he lets her, she nurtures the crap out of him.

Being rescued should have nothing to do with it, very powerful men have been in need of rescue before it's the term somewhat ineffectual that seems to be the sticking point here. If you say that the stereotype is that women nurture then you say that women don't like men they need to nurture, well that sort of drives home the point that the stereotype is broken or that the people who said no are not part of the stereotype group, wouldn't helping be part of nurturing?

Babies and children are, for what I think are pretty obvious reasons, completely different than grown adults. That's not a good analogy.

No it's not a good analogy it's a joke, obviously not up to Leno standards but I thought the bit about me being sarcastic and the big smiley would give it away.

 

[Emiricol]

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

There's is something inherently wrong about the idea of resuing someone so you can then initiate a romantic relationship.

That's like looking to get 'benefits' from designated driver duty.

 

[David Argall]

why should she be interested in him?

In a few years, our lass is going to have one or more brats that will be the center of her life. She may not absolutely need help, but it is obviously a very good idea to get all she can.
I rescue her. I show a concern for her [& thus for our kids in the future] and some presumptive competence. That may not make her tear off her clothes and throw herself at my feet, but it's clearly a good start.
She rescues me. Now just what reason does that give her to think I'll be more useful than any random male? Fact is, I look to be a loser. Why not find somebody more useful?

Humans are complex enough that there are exceptions to most rules, but the odds are pretty heavy here.