Psionic PrC Statement

[Kristivas]

There's a Mystic Theurge (wizard/sorcerer and cleric mix) and a Cerebremancer (wizard/sorcerer and psion mix).

I had a player who wanted a PrC that mixed the cleric with a psion. I thought "Eh, why the heck not?". We worked it out for a FR game and began playing at roughly 8th level.

My advice to you, my friends, is not to allow this. It was one of the most powerful and awesome combinations I have yet to ever see. Divine Might with some of the psychometabolism-type powers is.. rather scary. I could list more examples, but I'm sure you get the picture already.

 

[Piratecat]

Interesting. Other than the fact that at high levels I'm finding psionics a little overpowered as compared to traditional divine and arcane magic (if they rate at "1", I'm finding psionics coming in at about "1.2", enough to notice but not really enough for me to badly fret about), the cleric/psion combo isn't obviously a fantastic mix. It has Multiple Ability Dependency (Int and Wis), and the PC will probably have poor hit points. Can you please give some of the really egregious combinations that you're finding?

 

[ForceUser]

...the PC will probably have poor hit points...

Vigor sort of makes up for that.

 

[Joshua Randall]

One of the WotC designers (maybe James Wyatt?) said that the reason he didn't think psionics were balanced is that they allow the PC to unleash a lot of their power at once, as opposed to the typical arcane/divine spells, which can only be doled out one (or two if quickened) spell at a time. I believe the analogy he made was that normal spells are like using a garden hose and psionics are like using a fire hose.

But I have never used psionics (in 20+ years of gaming), so what do I know? *shrug*

 

[ForceUser]

One of the WotC designers (maybe James Wyatt?) said that the reason he didn't think psionics were balanced is that they allow the PC to unleash a lot of their power at once, as opposed to the typical arcane/divine spells, which can only be doled out one (or two if quickened) spell at a time. I believe the analogy he made was that normal spells are like using a garden hose and psionics are like using a fire hose.

But I have never used psionics (in 20+ years of gaming), so what do I know? *shrug*

That's accurate. However, if the psion wants to blow his load in one or two encounters, it's going to bite him in the butt once in a while.

 

[sad_genius]

One of the WotC designers (maybe James Wyatt?) said that the reason he didn't think psionics were balanced is that they allow the PC to unleash a lot of their power at once

It was James Jacobs of Dungeon fame, IIRC

 

[Nonlethal Force]

That's accurate. However, if the psion wants to blow his load in one or two encounters, it's going to bite him in the butt once in a while.

This is the balancing of psionics. The DM must always be aware of this.

If a DM runs campaigns where there are only ever one or two encounters per day - psionics will obliterate a game. [Okay, could obliterate a game] But if the DM occasionally has a day where tere are 6 or even 10 encounters once in a while - the psionic character is less likely to expend everything at once.

The same thing can be said about a wizard or sorcerer - but they are limited by the fact that they do only have so many higher level spells and then they have to use lower level spells. The psionic can use their powerpoints on whatever level they desire. So while the above is true for magic/cleric ... it is moreso true for psionics.

My thought on the psionic/clerical combo is that it would be powerful, but if the party goes up against an intelligent enemy they would know that psionic powers are typically short-lived. (shorter lived than magic/divine spells at least) Thus, forcing the players to waste time between encounters would be only of their primary defenses.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I can't see how the 8th level psicleric could be that awe-inspiring. He'd have to be cleric 3/psion 3/psicleric 2, giving him only 5th level in divine and psionic abilities. Most of his psi-abilities are at default rating or only minimal augmentation (max 5pt). Are you sure someone wasn't fudging something?

 

[ForceUser]

I can't see how the 8th level psicleric could be that awe-inspiring. He'd have to be cleric 3/psion 3/psicleric 2, giving him only 5th level in divine and psionic abilities. Most of his psi-abilities are at default rating or only minimal augmentation (max 5pt). Are you sure someone wasn't fudging something?

Ahh, but now we have a wonderful feat called Practiced Spellcaster, courtesy of Complete Divine. The mystic theurge in my game is a clr 3/wiz 3/MT 2, and casts his 5th-level repetiore of wizard spells as an 8th-level wizard. That's not inconsiderable.

 

[Vymair]

I believe practiced spellcaster is actually in the Complete Arcane. I'm the aforementioned Mystic Theurge and the feat is must for any multi-classed wizard.