D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[ECMO3]

Ensnaring Strike or Entangle that can't be broken unless you kill the Ranger or make the save/check is nasty if you can force disadvantage.

Any large or smaller would be screwed.

Yeah. Restrained is hardly OP at level 13, especially when they need to fail the save to even be restrained to start with.

Consider Wizards are getting Hold Monster and a no-concentration Forcecage at this point.

Moreover what is the excuse on the 17th level ability?

 

[Horwath]

A raw percentage is not really relevant though. You have to look at the capabilities of the spells. The Ranger's good combat spells are all concentration. To use 1st level for example, they don't get non-concentration spells that are comparable to Magic Missile, Dissonant Whispers, Command, Wrathful Smite etc.

Other classes may have a lower percentage of non-concentration spells, but they have more viable spells to cast in combat without competing with concentration.

This.

most of Rangers non-concentration spells are horrible, except 1st level, there are some useful rituals there.
you could make a decent investigator character focused on rituals and navigating nature, if there is a need for that king of character(depending on campaign), but as for combat spell, there are none that are not situational(freedom of movement).

Thinking about giving ranger fireball flavored as arrow storm.
Conjure barrage is just poor mans version of a fireball, lower damage, harder targeting and coming online 5 levels later.

 

[Ashrym]

A raw percentage is not really relevant though. You have to look at the capabilities of the spells. The Ranger's good combat spells are all concentration. To use 1st level for example, they don't get non-concentration spells that are comparable to Magic Missile, Dissonant Whispers, Command, Wrathful Smite etc.

Other classes may have a lower percentage of non-concentration spells, but they have more viable spells to cast in combat without competing with concentration.

Other classes rely on their spells more for combat. Rangers rely on martial attacks as well, and those don't require concentration.

The point of concentration is to prevent stacking effects. Rangers should be prevented from stacking effects just like other casters too. I also think that expanding the ranger spell list is a good idea that would give players more options in the spells they do select, though.

I would agree, but neither do they need the 13th level and 17th level and most egregiously their 20th level capstone tied to the spell. Doing so makes this "decision" much less of a decision or to put it another way, biases that decision towards a single spell.

Those are there because Hunter's Mark was identified as an iconic ability for rangers and those abilities help keep that ability relevant. If Hunter's Mark had been implemented similarly as a class ability instead of a spell I think the discussions would look different just based on that paradigm shift.

At least the ranger capstone actually improves what's been determined to be an iconic ability of the class.

For 13th level why not just have it that damage can't break concentration on any Ranger spell and for 17th level you have advantage while concentrating on any Ranger spell. Neither of those would be OP and I think that and a decent capstone would placate most of the discontent.

I think wizard players and sorcerer players would be complaining as to why rangers get an ability so useful for magic and they don't being the studies it to death guy or the naturally gifted in magic guy.

Implementing it that way would be and obvious buff to the class's spellcasting ability and not thematic for rangers.

Based on what I have seen about satisfaction, and the 105 pages of this post I don't think "enough" players are satisfied with the new Ranger, at least not with respect to the metrics WOTC was using during the playtest.

That falls into a vocal minority argument. We don't have those numbers. Or at least I don't.

The bottom line is that this is the ranger we got. Anyone who wants to house rule is going to regardless, and I might just build a "ranger" with an eldritch knight who builds towards the style.

 

[Horwath]

Anyone who wants to house rule is going to regardless, and I might just build a "ranger" with an eldritch knight who builds towards the style.

hmm;

heavy armor proficiency is a half feat, skill expert is a half feat.

exchange fighters heavy armor at 1st level for +1 skill and +1 expertise, add ranger spells to EK spell list, take magic initiate druid as a 1st level feat, fey touched as 4th level feat, rest take combat feats(sharpshooter, etc...) = profit.

 

[Ashrym]

Yeah. Restrained is hardly OP at level 13, especially when they need to fail the save to even be restrained to start with.

Consider Wizards are getting Hold Monster and a no-concentration Forcecage at this point.

Moreover what is the excuse on the 17th level ability?

Force cage has concentration now.

The advantage on using ensnaring strike is it's a bonus action spell that takes effect after hitting with the regular attack actions. It's less bonus damage than hunter's mark assuming 2 hits but can also be cast in a higher level slot for more damage and grants advantage on attacks against the restrained target and prevents the restrained target from moving and creates action denial in any attempts to escape it.

And it doesn't cost a 5th level or 7th level spell slot.

 

[Ashrym]

hmm;

heavy armor proficiency is a half feat, skill expert is a half feat.

exchange fighters heavy armor at 1st level for +1 skill and +1 expertise, add ranger spells to EK spell list, take magic initiate druid as a 1st level feat, fey touched as 4th level feat, rest take combat feats(sharpshooter, etc...) = profit.

House ruling like that where the DM will exchange heavy armor for expertise a person might just ask for the druid spell list instead of the wizard spell list and to use it with WIS instead of INT.

 

[Horwath]

House ruling like that where the DM will exchange heavy armor for expertise a person might just ask for the druid spell list instead of the wizard spell list and to use it with WIS instead of INT.

considering that druid list is weaker than wizards, one could ask druid+ranger list, most spell overlap anyway.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This.

most of Rangers non-concentration spells are horrible, except 1st level, there are some useful rituals there.
you could make a decent investigator character focused on rituals and navigating nature, if there is a need for that king of character(depending on campaign), but as for combat spell, there are none that are not situational(freedom of movement).

Spell Level 4 is very concentration heavy. But there are a few spells that you can upcast. And having freedom of movement as a situational option is not terrible.

Thinking about giving ranger fireball flavored as arrow storm.
Conjure volley is just poor mans version of a fireball, lower damage, harder targeting and coming online 5 levels later.

Conjure volley comes online 12 levels later.

Conjure barrage which comes online 4 levels later than fireball is totally ok damage wise. And it is easier to use because you chose targets. Big drawback of fireball.

 

[Horwath]

Spell Level 4 is very concentration heavy. But there are a few spells that you can upcast. And having freedom of movement as a situational option is not terrible.

Conjure volley comes online 12 levels later.

Conjure barrage which comes online 4 levels later than fireball is totally ok damage wise. And it is easier to use because you chose targets. Big drawback of fireball.

yeah, sorry, wrote wrong conjure spell.
you can pick targets but usually cone is more of a hassle than circle targeting.

 

[Minigiant]

Yeah. Restrained is hardly OP at level 13, especially when they need to fail the save to even be restrained to start with.

Consider Wizards are getting Hold Monster and a no-concentration Forcecage at this point.

Moreover what is the excuse on the 17th level ability?

You can punch the wizard with a minion to break concentration of Hold Monster before it gets to be abused.

Unbreakable Restraint means you have 13 levels to find a way to buff your DC or nerf their save.

It's a hypothetical but I could see a world where Relentless Hunter affecting more spells blows up the game