D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[Vaalingrade]

Action Surge and second wind were literally abilities every single player character and forth edition had.

I'm fairly sure Action Surge wasn't something universal n 4e.

Action Points were a thing, but in an ironic reversal from Healing Surges, Action Surge is much more powerful.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Sure ranger's focus is a good justification.

My point is that some fans were willing to spout anything irregardless of flavor with no justification for power. And some wanted things that would put the ranger out past the bounds of balance to do it.

I don't want a bland ranger even if it's super strong

I reeeally like how the 2024 design broadened character build concepts in all classes. There are way more viable and diverse builds even outside of Subclasses. So yeah, I understand how doubling down so hard on Hunter's Mark being the Ranger's THING feels more restrictive than all the other class designs.

Some people complain about the Ranger's Identity and that Hunter's Mark is not good for the identity. But if we're talking about the identity of the Ranger, what it is for 5E? The tagline for the ranger in the 2024 book is "A Wandering Warrior Imbued with Primal Magic." Is that accurate? For the most part yes, but when I look at the abilities of the Ranger, I can't help but focus on the Warrior aspect, and how they go about fulfilling that Warrior aspect. Because they aren't Druids.

As warriors, I see them as the Apex Predator class that cannot be stopped from hunting down and dealing with their chosen prey. They are the Polar Bears of the classes. No wild or urban terrain or distance discourages them, and when they find their quarry (whether a singular threat or a group), they have the tools to deal with them. From a game design standpoint, Hunter's Mark really works for a primal warrior class focused on tracking down and dealing with chosen enemies.

Because the Ranger fulfills my fantasy (Hunter's Mark and Precise Hunter and other related abilities also fulfill the "4E Seeker" theme I also enjoy), I'm not arguing as hard as others who see the Ranger as something different than a Primal Hunter Warrior. But I do get it that some people want something different. That was always going to happen. Some can't stand that the Ranger has magic at all. It's the most controversial of all classes when it comes to identity and expectation.

They had to pick a path, and not everyone was going to be happy. They picked a path that made it effective as the Unstoppable Predator (and I don't think it's bland). It succeeds at that role, and does not take away from other roles. But again, I do understand the desire to water down a solid, but mechanic-focused identity to broaden the possible "themes" of the base class. I think it is possible, because they did it with Warlock pacts too!

 

[Minigiant]

I'm fairly sure Action Surge wasn't something universal n 4e.

Action Points were a thing, but in an ironic reversal from Healing Surges, Action Surge is much more powerful.

Action Points in 4e have you a standard action. You start with 1 and got one after a milestone. A milestone is 2 complete encounters.

It's the same thing as Action Surge except you have to rest instead of getting it automatically.

The 5e fighter is just a heavily nerfed 4e PHB fighter, ranger or rogue.

 

[Ashrym]

the point is HM is not the be-all, end-all spell for some people, and we don't even have to imagine people saying "why hunter's mark? why not something i can actually use" because we've already heard multiple people claiming that in this thread already, people want to be able to pick for themselves a spell that will be useful to their ranger, not be loaded up with this awkward spell that almost seems designed to interfere with the useage compatability of multiple other ranger capabilities hogging both concentration full time it's active and your bonus action irregularly.

I think you already took the L on that line of argument when I demonstrated that rangers have one of the lowest ratios of concentration spells. ;-P

Concentration is something every spell caster deals with in their decision making. Rangers don't need to be exempt from that choice with Hunter's Mark.

It's the same with choice of bonus action. Every character makes choices on how to gain and use those bonus actions. Rangers don't need to be exempt from that choice with Hunter's Mark.

We're also circling back to my point where you claim you don't want Hunter's Mark but expect it to be up all the time just because you have it, which is a weird premise. Hunter's Mark doesn't have to be up all the time to make it useful. Just use it when it makes the most sense to use it. And since it doesn't have to be up all the time then it's okay to drop it for concentration and cast it again later or use a later bonus action for a new target; therefore neither concentration nor the action economy is significantly a drawback in gameplay for Hunter's Mark.

Hunter's mark was the solution that made enough players satisfied for WotC to go in this direction. I'm probably going to drop this discussion with you. We're going in circles.

 

[mellored]

Relentless Hunter
Nothing can shake your primal focus in matters of life and death. When in combat, taking damage can’t break your Concentration on Ranger spells.

Too much IMO.

I suggest
Add your Wisdom modifier to concentration saves.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Action Points in 4e have you a standard action. You start with 1 and got one after a milestone. A milestone is 2 complete encounters.

It's the same thing as Action Surge except you have to rest instead of getting it automatically.

Not entirely, considering Action Surge comes with Extra Attack, but I can see it.

The 5e fighter is just a heavily nerfed 4e PHB fighter, ranger or rogue.

Nerfing is very kind a word.

 

[ECMO3]

I think you already took the L on that line of argument when I demonstrated that rangers have one of the lowest ratios of concentration spells. ;-P

A raw percentage is not really relevant though. You have to look at the capabilities of the spells. The Ranger's good combat spells are all concentration. To use 1st level for example, they don't get non-concentration spells that are comparable to Magic Missile, Dissonant Whispers, Command, Wrathful Smite etc.

Other classes may have a lower percentage of non-concentration spells, but they have more viable spells to cast in combat without competing with concentration.

Concentration is something every spell caster deals with in their decision making. Rangers don't need to be exempt from that choice with Hunter's Mark.

I would agree, but neither do they need the 13th level and 17th level and most egregiously their 20th level capstone tied to the spell. Doing so makes this "decision" much less of a decision or to put it another way, biases that decision towards a single spell.

For 13th level why not just have it that damage can't break concentration on any Ranger spell and for 17th level you have advantage while concentrating on any Ranger spell. Neither of those would be OP and I think that and a decent capstone would placate most of the discontent.

Hunter's mark was the solution that made enough players satisfied for WotC to go in this direction.

Based on what I have seen about satisfaction, and the 105 pages of this post I don't think "enough" players are satisfied with the new Ranger, at least not with respect to the metrics WOTC was using during the playtest.

 

[Minigiant]

Although many people have said that allow ranger to have taking damage can’t break your Concentration on any Ranger spells not be OP at level 13...

I am 1000% sure that if WOTC had done that...

within a week someone would have found a way to break it.

Such a feature would be optimizer bait. And WOTC is the worst at spotting not obvious abuse.

In Universe #1896.3, they did this and Youtubers are spreading some OP Ranger build and mocking WOTC.

 

[ECMO3]

Although many people have said that allow ranger to have taking damage can’t break your Concentration on any Ranger spells not be OP at level 13...

I am 1000% sure that if WOTC had done that...

within a week someone would have found a way to break it.

Such a feature would be optimizer bait. And WOTC is the worst at spotting not obvious abuse.

In Universe #1896.3, they did this and Youtubers are spreading some OP Ranger build and mocking WOTC.

Ok then make it any 1st level Ranger spell instead of any Ranger spell. There are no OP 1st level Ranger spells.

 

[Minigiant]

Ok then make it any 1st level Ranger spell instead of any Ranger spell. There are no OP 1st level Ranger spells.

Ensnaring Strike or Entangle that can't be broken unless you kill the Ranger or make the save/check is nasty if you can force disadvantage.

Any large or smaller would be screwed.