D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

Because sound is harder to hide than sight, because logic. And if WotC doesn't want V, S, M to matter, they should say so and change the rules.
That's not logical. You need to explain what you think is "logic" there, because it isn't.

They don't need to change the rules until they at least explain the rules - we're not even at that point. There are absolutely no rules for seeing Somatic components, and absolutely no rules (that I'm aware of) for hearing Verbal ones.

It's been discussed at extreme length online.

WotC themselves have been asked and failed to answer beyond "It's up to your DM".

So yeah, there's no point in changing rules that don't exist lol.
 

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That sounds a feature for the Drunken Master sub-class.
I don't think a Drunken Master subclass would make it past an accessibility oriented sensitivity reader in 2024. It stumbles into a few problematic issues. It might come back at some point with a new theme.

On the other hand, I am not sure that "oriented" would make it mast a sensitivity reader in 2024 either. That sort of language is ever evolving.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Not it isn't lol.

That's tea-reading. That's pretending to be psychic. You are not a psion.
You dang well know I can respond truthfully without breaking Masquerade.

But WOTC's proposed and official design nudges hard that the verbal component of spells isn't silent.

Even at a whisper casting spells near foes at a whisper would reveal yourself without covering noise or distraction. Which is up to DM interpretation just as if loud casting in a loud party.

The whole point is it isn't silent.

Don't buffing up right behind people. D&D isn't a PlayStation 1 game.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
That's not logical. You need to explain what you think is "logic" there, because it isn't.

They don't need to change the rules until they at least explain the rules - we're not even at that point. There are absolutely no rules for seeing Somatic components, and absolutely no rules (that I'm aware of) for hearing Verbal ones.

It's been discussed at extreme length online.

WotC themselves have been asked and failed to answer beyond "It's up to your DM".

So yeah, there's no point in changing rules that don't exist lol.
When I say, "change the rules", I mean the rules that assign purpose to components at all, if they in fact want them only to be flavor. For the questions you're asking, I rely on the logic of the real world.
 


Cadence

Legend
Supporter
I'm now imagining the case where the verbal component must be loud enough to be heard from 20' away in the ambient noise. And so loud enough background music works as a an anti-spell casting field. And so now you have bards with magical instruments and songs they've practiced with their casters, and there are really quick silences built in that their allied casters can use to get the spells off in.
 


I rely on the logic of the real world.
That's a fairly meaningless thing to say in the context of verbal spell components, which don't exist in the real world. The closest we have are various mystical/occult traditions, which vary hugely on how spells are spoken where they are spoken, from loud shouting and chanting, to whispers or not even vocalizing at all.

But WOTC's proposed and official design nudges hard that the verbal component of spells isn't silent.
Nudges.

And that's the problem. They never state how loud verbal components are, and when directly asked, have always evaded the question and left it up to DMs. So we're in this bizarre state where verbal components might be something you can whisper, or might be something you have to yell at the top of your voice, depending entirely on your DM and how they are feeling today.

I agree broadly that there is some suggestion that verbal components are non-silent but that's as far as it goes. And a lot of the suggestion is merely implied by the existence of Silence and Sorcerer metamagic.

Also problematic for WotC here, in this modern age - not everyone can speak - some people are mute or otherwise have limited vocalization capabilities. I don't think WotC wants them to be unable to play classes which cast spells. Do you think WotC wants that?

Man, I do miss that aspect of BECMI where there were no verbal or somatic components listed. All this crap would be rendered moot.
Yup. D&D clearly functions fine without tracking this stuff.
 

TiQuinn

Registered User
In forty years of gaming, other than when silence effects are in play, I don’t think it has ever mattered about verbal components.
It mattered more in 2e when spells had to be declared at the beginning of a round, the caster could be interrupted, and the spells had casting times. For 5e? I don’t see it mattering nearly as much now.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
That's a fairly meaningless thing to say in the context of verbal spell components, which don't exist in the real world. The closest we have are various mystical/occult traditions, which vary hugely on how spells are spoken where they are spoken, from loud shouting and chanting, to whispers or not even vocalizing at all.


Nudges.

And that's the problem. They never state how loud verbal components are, and when directly asked, have always evaded the question and left it up to DMs. So we're in this bizarre state where verbal components might be something you can whisper, or might be something you have to yell at the top of your voice, depending entirely on your DM and how they are feeling today.

I agree broadly that there is some suggestion that verbal components are non-silent but that's as far as it goes. And a lot of the suggestion is merely implied by the existence of Silence and Sorcerer metamagic.

Also problematic for WotC here, in this modern age - not everyone can speak - some people are mute or otherwise have limited vocalization capabilities. I don't think WotC wants them to be unable to play classes which cast spells. Do you think WotC wants that?


Yup. D&D clearly functions fine without tracking this stuff.
Again, if they don't want components to matter in play, say so and/or remove them. To do otherwise is intellectual dishonesty.
 

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