Reach Weapons - a thought...

[Noumenon]

I like the idea of getting rid of the spiked chain (which isn't a real weapon) and replacing it with the kusari-gama, just because I'm all for making monk weapons a bit better.

 

[kitcik]

It is fairly well agreed upon that reach weapons are superior in every sense to nonreach weapons, and that the best weapon (at least, in core) is the spiked chain. In my opinion, the next best is the Halberd.

I was unaware of this gem. Oriental Adventures?

It is. p.72-73.

Also Here.

Also, DMG pages 144 & 145 - it IS core.

 

[Water Bob]

Just to note, you only get one AoO against a foe if the action that triggered it is continuous even if you can make more than 1 AoO per round.

Actually, Ralph only gets one AoO, even with Combat Reflexes; a single movement can only provoke one AoO. However, he could make that AoO at any of the three points you mentioned.

Ah. Gotcha. Just re-read the Combat Reflexes rule.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Also, DMG pages 144 & 145 - it IS core.

Awesome find! Don't know how I've never seen that. I think I'd want to convince my Warblade/Crusader player to trade in his Spiked Chain for this, just because it's conceptually cooler.

 

[kitcik]

Awesome find! Don't know how I've never seen that. I think I'd want to convince my Warblade/Crusader player to trade in his Spiked Chain for this, just because it's conceptually cooler.

I like the fact that it is a light weapon - easier to fluff in as a special monk weapon.

 

[orion90000]

Oh... I think you guys just taught me something.

So, If I get this right. If a weapon has both 10' and 5' attack, like the spiked chain, moving out of the 10' range to adjacent to the opponent at 5', is technically moving out of the further threatened square into another threatened square, and therefore provokes A..? Because that would be cool.

Is that not the same for a reach weapon that only threatens at 10' range, but not up close, like the polearm? Because moving out of the 10' threat range to adjacent still technically is leaving a threatened square, however the weapon cannot hit you anymore because you're too close?

it's cool, you've taught us stuff too.

 

[orion90000]

As it was said, you typically only suffer AOOs on the first round of combat or when fighting a large opponent with reach 15'+ reach.

You typically will not provoke AOOs at all. Which is sad since they are a very interesting part of combat.

I would be interested in knowing ways to make your opponents provoke AOOs .

 

[Greenfield]

To clarify for Rumbletiger: The AoO takes place at the start of the move or action that provokes it, so it doesn't matter if they're moving *to* a threatened square or not. It's the move *from* a threatened square that's important.

Consider the Improved Trip maneuver in light of this.

1) I trip someone, and get a free shot while they're down.
2) On their action they try to stand, which provokes an Attack of Opportunity.
3) I respond by tripping them again, and getting another free shot on their action, while effectively denying them any further movement.
4) On my action I hit them while they're down, gaining a +4 advantage v the prone opponent.
5) Go to 2.

So why doesn't that work? If it does, then Improved Trip is the ultimate combat maneuver. Once you have them down, they're down for the rest of the battle. They can't get up, they can't roll or crawl away (those provoke as well), all they can do is either continue to try and rise, giving me free shots all day or fight from the down position, with all the penalties that involves.

The reason it doesn't work like that is that you can't trip someone who is already down. And that's where they are when they provoke the AoO, at the start of their move action, trying to get up.

So whether you're using a spiked chain, a pole arm or a Bohemian Ear Spoon, the rules are the same: Try to leave a threatened square (other than with a 5 foot step or a Withdraw maneuver) and your opponent gets free swing before you go. And it doesn't matter if you're advancing, retreating, or running in circles.

 

[TKDB]

I would be interested in knowing ways to make your opponents provoke AOOs .

Robilar's Gambit from PH2 is pretty much the gold standard for AoO builds -- you take a penalty to AC, but your enemies provoke AoOs from you for every attack they make against you. IIRC there's a similar feat accessible at an earlier level in CW. I believe it's called Karmic Strike, and the main difference (aside from easier prereqs) is that Karmic Strike only gives you an AoO when you get hit, whereas Robilar's grants an AoO for each attack against you, whether the attack hits or not.

Another great tool for getting lots of AoOs is the Thicket of Blades stance from ToB, which makes it so any movement within your threatened space provokes AoOs, including stuff that ordinarily wouldn't. The text explicitly mentions 5-ft steps and the withdraw action, and presumably it would apply to tumble, Spring Attack, etc. The knight gets a class feature that serves a similar purpose -- defensive bulwark, or bulwark of defense, or something of that nature. Makes the space around you considered difficult terrain, preventing 5-ft steps and generally impeding maneuverability for your opponents.

 

[orion90000]

What is the stats on a Bohemian Ear Spoon anyways. Is that like Riddick killing a man with a cup in The Chronicles of Riddick?

And as far as causing opponents to incurr AOOs, are there any core ways? I kinda hate adding a bajillion splat books. Causes problems like vow of poverty...