Readied Actions

[Magic Slim]

That's not a 1E-fostered attitude, that's a "DM against the players" flaw. The rules, however, are clear: they state you MAY take the readied action one the trigger occurs. May, not must. Can, not have to.

I disagree. The DMG (p. 63-64) states:

If a character specifies a readied action and then decides not to perform the action when the conditions are met, the standard rule is that the character can keep his action ready. Given that combat is often confusing and fast, however, you're within your rights to make it a little harder on the character who readies an action and doesn't take that action when the opportunity presents itself. You have 2 options:
- Allow the character to forgo the action at the expense of losing the readied action
- Allow the character to make a Wisdom check (DC 15) to avoid taking the readied action. [Ghoul example ensues]

Yes its a variant rule, but it is proposed to the DM...

Slim

 

[Morgruumsh Toothgrin]

So back to the reason I posted the question in the first place . . .

In order to successfully counter a spell you MUST take a ready action and you MUST have the same spell memorized (Wizard) or available (Sorcerer). Considering that there are over 300 wizard spells to choose from at higher levels, I find it highly unlikely that ANY wizard in their right mind would waste the precious opportunity to cast their own spell in the "hopes" that perhaps they "might" be able to counter someone else's . . .

In other words it makes the whole concept of countering a spell somewhat pointless, and it lends less fairness to the players, as the DM knows full well ALL the spells the players can cast, but the players know nothing of what the NPC's can cast.

When was the last time a PC spellcaster tried to counter a spell in your campaign?

I'm guessing for many it is NEVER. My group has been playing since the 3.0 ruleset came out (and before) and NOT ONCE has anyone ever tried to counter a spell.

My feeling is to be gracious as a DM, give them the open ended benefit of the doubt. Spellcrafting the spell is a free action. If they have a missile weapon at the ready, and they can't counter the spell, why not give them the opportunity to fire?

BTW - the argument that they don't have time holds less sway with me. It is a six second round, theoretically everything is happening at the same time, with initiaive simply accounting for reaction time. A ready action is IMO, a chance to say, "Hey. I'm reacting faster than you, lets see what you're going to do and try to thwart it."

 

[arbados]

I am with you MT. The group I DM for has NEVER used the counterspell option. I like your idea of allowing the Spellcraft Check within the readied action.

 

[Saeviomagy]

So back to the reason I posted the question in the first place . . .

In order to successfully counter a spell you MUST take a ready action and you MUST have the same spell memorized (Wizard) or available (Sorcerer). Considering that there are over 300 wizard spells to choose from at higher levels, I find it highly unlikely that ANY wizard in their right mind would waste the precious opportunity to cast their own spell in the "hopes" that perhaps they "might" be able to counter someone else's . . .

In other words it makes the whole concept of countering a spell somewhat pointless, and it lends less fairness to the players, as the DM knows full well ALL the spells the players can cast, but the players know nothing of what the NPC's can cast.

When was the last time a PC spellcaster tried to counter a spell in your campaign?

I'm guessing for many it is NEVER. My group has been playing since the 3.0 ruleset came out (and before) and NOT ONCE has anyone ever tried to counter a spell.

My feeling is to be gracious as a DM, give them the open ended benefit of the doubt. Spellcrafting the spell is a free action. If they have a missile weapon at the ready, and they can't counter the spell, why not give them the opportunity to fire?

The only thing is that if he's casting a spell to disrupt, he'd need a free hand.

If he's using a bow, he doesn't have a free hand.

I'd say someone with quickdraw wouldn't have the problem, but someone without it should be in trouble trying to change their mind like that...

 

[Li Shenron]

I accept only simple triggers. I still like picturing a charater "readying to shoot his bow when the wizard starts casting" as keeping the bow pulled and aim the target while he is readying, or a caster "readying to counterspell..." as having already started the casting (but not far enough not to be able to interrupt it without losing the spell).

 

[S'mon]

I disagree. The DMG (p. 63-64) states:

(snip)

Yes its a variant rule, but it is proposed to the DM...

Slim

Thanks Slim.

 

[S'mon]

I am with you MT. The group I DM for has NEVER used the counterspell option. I like your idea of allowing the Spellcraft Check within the readied action.

Mine has never used it either. However I'd allow readied actions of the kind:

"If hostile X starts to cast a spell, I try to counterspell him"

 

[clark411]

Our group uses Post it notes.. we write down our action and flip it over.. if it goes off we show everyone.

usually it's "I hit any opponent who enters an area I threaten." or "I Turn Undead when 3 or more undead come within 60 ft of me."

Specific Trigger Action / Circumstance, Specific Resulting Action by PC.

 

[brendan candries]

when you ready a counterspell, do you have to decide on beforehand that you'll try to use spellcraft or dispel magic?

can you opt for dispel magic even when you failed to identify or did identify the spell being cast or opt not to counter the spell afterall depending the spellcraft result?

 

[Magic Slim]

When fighting a high-level mage, I sometimes ready an action to counterspell his "teleport" when he tries to get away.

You can counterspell with Dispel Magic

There's a feat that lets you counterspell with any spell from the same school.

If you have fought the mage before, you probably have an idea of what his favorite spells are.

For a cleric, counterspelling a cure spell cast by an evil cleric can really tip the balance in your favor.

Etc.

Slim

(see you all when i'm at work)