Readied Actions

[brendan candries]

when you ready a counterspell, do you have to decide on beforehand that you'll try to use spellcraft or dispel magic?

can you opt for dispel magic even when you failed to identify or did identify the spell being cast or opt not to counter the spell afterall depending the spellcraft result?

 

[Pax]

when you ready a counterspell, do you have to decide on beforehand that you'll try to use spellcraft or dispel magic?

No. You ready a counterspell, and when the spellis being cast, you roll spellcraft; if you succeed, and have the right spell, you can use that. If the answer to either of those was no, you use Dispel (or greater dispel) -- or you don't counterspell.

 

[Li Shenron]

when you ready a counterspell, do you have to decide on beforehand that you'll try to use spellcraft or dispel magic?

No.

can you opt for dispel magic even when you failed to identify or did identify the spell being cast or opt not to counter the spell afterall depending the spellcraft result?

That's quite typical: you ready a counterspell, if the Spellcraft fails so you don't know which spell it is, or if you identify the spell but have not a proper spell to counter it, you can still counter it with Dispel Magic, but in this case there is only a % of chance to succeed. I guess you can also decide NOT to counter the spell if you identify it and think it's not worth to counter (like if the caster is casting Teleport to flee and you decide that's fine for you ).

 

[Morgruumsh Toothgrin]

Ok, then what is the difference between readying a counterspell, failing your spellcraft and using dispel magic

vs.

Readying a counterspell, failing your spellcraft, and casting silence??

So long as the spell has a verbal component the caster can't complete the spell . . . thus disrupting it.

Dispel magic and Silence are both standard actions.

???

 

[DM2]

Ok, then what is the difference between readying a counterspell, failing your spellcraft and using dispel magic

vs.

Readying a counterspell, failing your spellcraft, and casting silence??

So long as the spell has a verbal component the caster can't complete the spell . . . thus disrupting it.

Dispel magic and Silence are both standard actions.

???

The difference is just where you draw the line. Like someone mentioned, I prefer the simple example of drawing down with a bow, ready to release the arrow if the target doex X.

I'd consider preparing to counterspell the right amount of specificity. You can, by the rules, counterspell either with the same spell, with a spell that says in its text it counters the spell, or with dispel magic.

I'd consider counterpselling to be different than casting a spell. Ready to counterspell a wizard if he starts casting....go for it. If the player says that and then tries to isntead cast silence, no way.

If I allowed that, I'd have to (by my line of reasoning) allow them to say, cast fireball instead. Hey...if he dies, I'll have stopped him right?

Also, on another topic someone brought up, my group uses the ready action to stop spellcasting a LOT.

Their preference is to ready actions to shoot arrows or fire off damage spells if they see the wizard start casting anything though...no need to have dispel magic or the right spell handy that way, and you might just kill the wizard as well as disrupt him!

That's all my take, and you're entitled to yours of course, even if I disagree with the reasoning presented for it.

DM2

 

[Li Shenron]

Ok, then what is the difference between readying a counterspell, failing your spellcraft and using dispel magic

vs.

Readying a counterspell, failing your spellcraft, and casting silence??

So long as the spell has a verbal component the caster can't complete the spell . . . thus disrupting it.

Dispel magic and Silence are both standard actions.

???

I think the 2 could be technically different actions: you either ready a spell or a counterspell, by the rules. I don't think that it would be unbalanced to allow either with the same "ready a spell" action anyway...

The Counterspell section (nor the Combat chapter) in the SRD doesn't specify "counter" as a different action that "cast" IIRC, and doesn't mention any difference prior to the time when you start casting, i.e. after the trigger: it just says you alter the spell slightly, but not when you ready it, just when you cast it.

At the same time and for the same reason, it could be ruled that it's not forbidden to just "ready a spell", and then by succeeding a Spellcraft check, decide to cast the same spell (if available) as a counter.

Well, I am not sure, but it could be ruled this way... but also the other way around. It depends if your DM generally allows to "ready a spell" or otherwise wants you to ready always a specific spell (i don't think it's clear in the rules), and if the latter is the case then counterspell is the exception and therefore you can't cast something else (but Dispel Magic is the exception to the exception).

Another consideration: counterspell requires to ready a spell with the opposite caster as target. I suppose that this way you can't then cast something else unless it has a compatible target (like you can cast Silence, but not an area spell). If you opt to ready without selecting target=caster when readying, you could cast any spell but not as a counter?

 

[Stormrunner]

Consider the following scenario:
"I ready a flask of alchemists fire to throw at the first critter through the door" (expecting a troll)
"A rast comes through the door."(or other critter immune to fire)
"Um, I throw a vial of acid instead."

Would you allow that? I wouldn't. Sure they're both grenade-like weapons, but if the PC is taking the time to switch off it's no longer a readied action, IMO.

Similarly, I wouldn't allow
"I ready a counterspell action."
"You fail your Spellcraft check to identify the spell"(and don't have Dispel Magic handy)
"Um, I cast Silence instead."

I would, however, allow
"I ready a Silence spell for if he tries casting."
More useful in many cases anyway, unless the badguy has the Silent Spell feat.

 

[Magic Slim]

About "counterspelling" with Silence... Is the opposing caster screwed, or can he move (if he hasn't taken his move action yet) and then cast? Since the readied action takes place before the action that triggers it, I guess that'd be possible, right?

Slim

 

[Hypersmurf]

About "counterspelling" with Silence... Is the opposing caster screwed, or can he move (if he hasn't taken his move action yet) and then cast? Since the readied action takes place before the action that triggers it, I guess that'd be possible, right?

"He starts to cast a spell."
"Great, my Readied action triggers! I hit him with my axe... ooh, critical! That's... 41 points of damage. Make a concentration check!"
"No, your readied action went before his spell. So instead, he moves away from you, and then casts. Since your attack didn't occur during the casting, he doesn't have to make a concentration check."

... doesn't work like that.

-Hyp.

 

[the Jester]

I never allow a readied action with an 'or' in it.

In other words, you ready a counterspell; you ready an arrow shot at the first enemy to come through the door; you ready a flask of oil at the first foe to step onto the bridge.

I wouldn't allow you to switch the counterspell to a silence, to shoot your arrow at the second enemy to come through the door, or to switch to a flask of acid. Especially switching to a flask of acid- you have to get it out (a move-equivalent action at best) and then throw it; that's a full round's worth of actions right there!