log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D 5E Realigning the races post tasha's

tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
It's always been clear that some racial choices are extremely good (variant human) & others like mountain dwarf are good but piled high with meaningless boons anyone with the associated stats probably gets from their class or benefits from at the cost of a lower prime stat & weird build. In letting PCs swap the racial attribute bonuses they put a spotlight on just how lacking many races are. I decided to rebalance the races in an attempt to be closer to being on par with each other using variant human, mountain dwarf & the Aven from plane shift amonkhet as the target baseline. Because they are easier I'm going to start with the volos races
Healing hands: replace this with paladin lay on hands feature 1/4 your character level. If you gain levels in paladin this adds to the lay on hands pool.
Radiant consumption: works like arrificer artillerist turrets. Once per long rest then requires expending a first level or higher spell slot to reuse before the next long rest.
Necrotic shroud: works like arrificer artillerist turrets. Once per long rest then requires expending a first level or higher spell slot to reuse before the next long rest.
Hidden step: works like arrificer artillerist turrets. Once per long or short rest then requires expending a first level or higher spell slot to reuse before the next long or short rest.
Stone's endurance: You can use this once per long or short rest at no cost. Each additional use expends one unspent hit die.
mimiced words: You know the vicious mockery cantrip & can consider the dissonant whispers spell to be known or prepared without counting against spells known or prepared for your class. Both require one or more levels in a class capable of casting spells & use the relevant attribute for that class in order to cast
Hungry Jaws: You can use hungry jaws with the monk martial arts die rather than the 1d6bite damage+str damage by spending a ki point or unspent hit die each use after the first.
Natural armor: If you gain unarmored defense from a source such as monk or barbarian, your unarmored defense AC is increased by 3, otherwie this functions normally as described.

These are a +2/+1 race & the action free dash is not limited by rests so I'm not sure they need much if any improvement.

Control air & water: The fog cloud & wall of water spells are considered known or prepared spells without counting against your total & can be cast normally if you gain first & third level spell slots from a class capable of casting splls. The relevant attribute shifts to match that of your casting class if that class uses an attribute other than charisma to cast spells.
Sneaky: this is revised to function as sneak attack as per a third level rogue & It can be used any time you would otherwise be eligible for sneak attack rather than jut when you surprise a foe. Unlike sneak attack this can be used with all weapons rather tan just finesse & ranged weapons. You can add this to your rogue level & continue using the relaxed weapon options for purposes of determining your sneak attack if you gain rogue levels
Saving Face: you can use this any number of times but must roll 11 or higher on a d20 for an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw before you can use it again after each use
Fury of the small: No longer limited by rests. When making spell attacks or weapon attacks with a light weapon against larger sized creatures no more than 15 feet away you can add1/4your level to each damage roll.
Rather than +2 dex -2 str you gain +2 dex +1 to a different ability score of your choice
Grovel cower & beg: You no longer need to take a long or short rest between each use
Inate spellcasting: If you gain levels in a class capable of casting spells, you treat poison spray, animal friendship, & suggestio as always known or prepared spell without counting against your spells known or spells prepared. These spells then use the relevant casting stat for your class if that attribute is something other than charisma.
Ability score increase: +2 strength +1 con
Passionate: You may choose between taking the aggressive trait or selecting a half feat of your choice. A half feat is a feat that adds +1 to an ability score in addition to granting something else such as actor athlete & heavy armor master.
The spells related to your mark are always considered to be prepared or known without counting against your limit. You can cast these spells using spell slots as normal if you have unused spell slots of level needed for each dragonmark spell.
You start with the heavy armor master feat & are able to make use of it regardless of what type of armor you are wearing even if you are not wearing armor.
You begin with a half feat of your choice, this can include racially restricted half feats. A half feat is a feat that adds +1 to an ability score in addition to granting something else such as actor athlete & heavy armor master.
Your breath weapon recharges on a d6 with a 5-6 just like a dragon'. The breath weapon is no longer limited by rests. See Limited usage on page 11 of the monster manual for full explaination.
If you take levels in a spellcasting class you can add your intelligence modifier (min1) to the number of spells you can know or prepare from your class list if you take levels in a spellcasting class.In the case of wizard & artificer where you already do this it counts twice
In addition to the normal function you can expend an unspent hit die to make a 19 on a d20 into a critical hit. Similar to the champion's improved critical. If you gain the improved critical feature from champion this can be used on a 17 18 or 19.
Infernal legacy: These spells are always considered to be known or prepared but don't count againt your spells known or prepared limit if you take levels in a spellcasting class even if they are nott normally available to your class

This is kinda long so I'm going to stop there rather than continuing with tortle grung & ggtr races. Although I've not spent significant time ensurig everything is balanced, hopefully this will be a useful enough starting point for people to bring to their GM for discussion until either wotc issues an errata for the loser races ormore likely many of us avoid the problem by hopping over to A5e :D
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

BacchusNL

Explorer
Lots of good ideas here! I like how you adress incompatible casting modifiers on racial spells, increase scaling into the late game on the abilities and play around with different ways to increase crit rating or use hit die. These are things I've always had in the back of my mind aswel as things to adress. I'll look into it more when i got time!
 


tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
Is there a reason to nerf the goliath? Right now it is 1/short rest, which is more hp conserved. On the other hand, your ability is too strong at the same time, since you can burn all in one fight. So I`d stick with the old one.
No, it's much easier to bring the lower tier races up towards the higher tier races as I suggested here. Specifically I suggested "Stone's endurance: You can use this once per long rest at no cost. Each additional use expends one unspent hit die." & explain my targets over there. Yes it seems like a great ability, but at once per rest it's mediocre at best compared to +2/+2 attrib & a possible +3 half plate.
 

No, it's much easier to bring the lower tier races up towards the higher tier races as I suggested here. Specifically I suggested "Stone's endurance: You can use this once per long rest at no cost. Each additional use expends one unspent hit die." & explain my targets over there. Yes it seems like a great ability, but at once per rest it's mediocre at best compared to +2/+2 attrib & a possible +3 half plate.
With resistance to cold and the possibility to reduce damage to 0 for no concentration is good enough.
1 extra attribute and a possible half plate you probably never get is no reason to allow a race to resist 1d12 plus con bonus damage per turn by burning every hit die. That just calls for 5 min workday.

The best you could compare it to is a human with heavy armor mastery. Overall I value the goliath package quite high. Now with putting the bonus into int and con makes a great wizard character, or even better caster with access to some kind of armor.
Resistance to cold now compares to poison resist.

Actually I would be a bit more restrictive with swaps than what tasha allows. A 1 for 1 trade of redundand armor and weapon proficiencies is more problematic overall. I think a swap of groups would be morr in line. For the mountain dwarf I would link +1 Str and medium armor proficiency. I would link 1 point of str to the armor proficiency. I'd also group all martial weapon proficiencies and disallow to keep a martial weapon when losing simple weapons.
So a high elf would get only 2 proficiencies as does the dwarf base race. I'd also probably cut the gain by half if you "give up" something you retroactively gain back by taking a certain class.
Not that I find it problematic power wise, but some things fee weird. Dwarf: get proficiencies in 6 tools. Human: get nothing.
 

tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
With resistance to cold and the possibility to reduce damage to 0 for no concentration is good enough.
1 extra attribute and a possible half plate you probably never get is no reason to allow a race to resist 1d12 plus con bonus damage per turn by burning every hit die. That just calls for 5 min workday.

The best you could compare it to is a human with heavy armor mastery. Overall I value the goliath package quite high. Now with putting the bonus into int and con makes a great wizard character, or even better caster with access to some kind of armor.
Resistance to cold now compares to poison resist.

Actually I would be a bit more restrictive with swaps than what tasha allows. A 1 for 1 trade of redundand armor and weapon proficiencies is more problematic overall. I think a swap of groups would be morr in line. For the mountain dwarf I would link +1 Str and medium armor proficiency. I would link 1 point of str to the armor proficiency. I'd also group all martial weapon proficiencies and disallow to keep a martial weapon when losing simple weapons.
So a high elf would get only 2 proficiencies as does the dwarf base race. I'd also probably cut the gain by half if you "give up" something you retroactively gain back by taking a certain class.
Not that I find it problematic power wise, but some things fee weird. Dwarf: get proficiencies in 6 tools. Human: get nothing.
this is not hard to get
1606169870212.png

a +1 halfplate isn't exactly legendary either,
 




tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
Ok... I don't want to follow that line of argumentation.
I see your confusion. Mountain dwarf is all of
1606178081885.png


1606178113669.png

1606178129813.png
That means that you can now have caster with +2/+2 light armor proficient medium armor proficient, poison resistant, & some ribbons after tasha's pointed a spotlight on the loser races.
1606178362686.png
 

Jediking

Explorer
Not much to add until I go through them all.

Fantastic idea! Looking forward to adding these to my own game as options and even traits for other creatures to use.
Looks like a great way to add in feats, templates, racial training, etc.
 

After reading the Triton section.

Wait hold up: your telling me that any race that comes with Spells, that isn't a cantrip, like Fog Cloud or Creste/Destroy water, COUNTS towards your list of spells known and prepared?
 

tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
After reading the Triton section.

Wait hold up: your telling me that any race that comes with Spells, that isn't a cantrip, like Fog Cloud or Creste/Destroy water, COUNTS towards your list of spells known and prepared?
Not by default, but it's a good step towards bringing a lot of those races up to par. It's pretty rare that those spells are top shelf spells. Out of the ones that are good they tend to be low level spells. Making them always prepared give those races a bit of a twist on their spell list regardless of what class they are playing. I don't forsee such a thing as a balance concern for a few reasons...
First: Keep in mind that multiclassing lets you prepare spells as both classes so a hypothetical level 1 wizard/1 artificer with 20 int could prepare/know 6 spells from each list while a 1cleric/1druid with 20 wis again 6 from each list. If you look at those spell lists there is a ton of overlap that would allow a hypothetical 10/1 split to grab all of their must have first level spells plus a bunch of higher level ones from their more advanced class & nobody is complaining about those characters knowing/preparing lots of spells so there shouldn't be any balance concerns if for example a triton paladin is casting fog cloud & gust of wind occasionally.
Second: I has my players run dragonmark races like that long ago & aside from feeling different from other races in that class I didn't come across any problems,...
Third: What is better, a floating +2/+2 & medium armor or lesser stats & some extra preset spells prepped?
 

I see your confusion. Mountain dwarf is all of That means that you can now have caster with +2/+2 light armor proficient medium armor proficient, poison resistant, & some ribbons after tasha's pointed a spotlight on the loser races.
View attachment 129004
Yes... That was obvious. But even though it is good, it still does not justify your change to goliath who is already in a good shape. The Armor proficiency and +2 to two stats is great.... but not so much that 1d12+3 damage reduction times (level +1) is justified. That is way overpowered for a single combat. And over a standard day, it is a nerf, because you trade 3 free uses for 1.
So you encourage the 5 min work day.

Now if you want to speak about legendary half plate: there are other magical protections for a wizard without armor proficiencies. I'd also wager that in a typical party the wizard will be the last who gets that +3 armor, because relying on it usually means the wizard did something wrong: being in the mid of melee combat...
 

tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
Yes... That was obvious. But even though it is good, it still does not justify your change to goliath who is already in a good shape. The Armor proficiency and +2 to two stats is great.... but not so much that 1d12+3 damage reduction times (level +1) is justified. That is way overpowered for a single combat. And over a standard day, it is a nerf, because you trade 3 free uses for 1.
So you encourage the 5 min work day.

Now if you want to speak about legendary half plate: there are other magical protections for a wizard without armor proficiencies. I'd also wager that in a typical party the wizard will be the last who gets that +3 armor, because relying on it usually means the wizard did something wrong: being in the mid of melee combat...
No the goliath suggestion has the same one free and you can burn hit dice for more. Everything that was one per rests got some form of additional use mechanism such as hit dice ki points spell slots & so forth.in the case of goliath it was hit dice.
 
Last edited:

No the goliath suggestion has the same one free and you can burn hit dice for more. Everything that was one per rests got some form of additional use mechanism such as hit dice ki points spell slots & so forth.in the case of goliath it was hit dice.
Wrong. Right now it recharges on long or short rest. Quite difference. You suggest long rest.
 

tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
Wrong. Right now it recharges on long or short rest. Quite difference. You suggest long rest.
that was a mistake. The only thing approaching a nerf should be stuff like the goblin fury of the small going from once/rest +Level damage to +1/4level on attacks & spell attacks without the rest limit.
 

that was a mistake. The only thing approaching a nerf should be stuff like the goblin fury of the small going from once/rest +Level damage to +1/4level on attacks & spell attacks without the rest limit.
So maybe you could say: sorry. I can't read your mind.
Still the ability as you present it is way better than the armor proficiency and it encourages a 5 min workday, because you can blow all your healing resources into an average of 10 damage prevented per turn. That is bad mechanic to include.
 

tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
So maybe you could say: sorry. I can't read your mind.
Still the ability as you present it is way better than the armor proficiency and it encourages a 5 min workday, because you can blow all your healing resources into an average of 10 damage prevented per turn. That is bad mechanic to include.
I don't agree. Hit dice do not return on a short rest* & it's fairly normal for a character concerned about mitigating damage like that would be getting hit more than once per rest. The only way it encourages the 5mwd is if it did before. What it really does is say that this particular character can expend a hit die after that first free use to nullify 1d12 + con damage(avg6.5+con) when they get hit rather than waiting till a short rest to recover hit die size + con + possibly song of rest or similar. If a character has high con that might nullify worrisome attacks in the early levels when they have few hit dice to splurge, but such a character should feel like their choice mattered when it counts rather than "well I should use it the first time I get hit for ~6+con just so I don't waste if if we take a short rest before a critical moment".

If that ability trivializing content is a concern for a gm, they can counter it with harder hitting creatures like the CR1 half ogre in the 1-4 adventure lmop who hits for 2d10+3 or with more numerous weaker monsters or with monsters who have the multiattack feature to make multiple attacks
You only recover half of them
1606232337221.png
 

I still have not heard an excuse for argumenting on a different presumtion than what you presented to us. And then you treated me as if I am wasn't able to read. But the mistake was on your side.

I am not sure we are on the same level about the definition of a 5 min workday.

In my opinion, It is the ability to burn all resources in a single fight. Recovering resources on a short rest exactly counteracts this. You need to take short breaks to recover some resources.

So what you propose was recovering on a long rest, and you could spend everything you have on healing resources in a single fight, effectively doubling your health. Recovering a tiny fraction on a short rest afterward does not help your argument. At least you can now say, that you did not nerf the free uses, so it is a straight buff... but it is way imbalanced and terrible for the game overall. I don't know why you think +1 to a stat and armor proficiency for a wizard is that powerful. Very useful for a wizard (that did not dump str to 8), yes. Nice to have +1 stat point on your main stat, also nice to have. Probably 5% chance to have your spells stick on target or make a con saving throw. But deciding between this and reducing damage - as you propose - a number of turns equal to level +1, so I do not actually have to make the concententration save at all - is no decision at all.
Also, stick that on an enemy spell caster with 5 hd and 30 hp and you will see how it goes.

Also now you propose to sepcially counteract a choice of a player, because an ability is unbalanced... Why won't you just not put such an ability in. It is sloppy game design.

Instead of making it 1/short rest + spending hit dice, you could make it proficiency bonus per long rest. Recover 1 use per short rest.
That way, you have some spare uses at the beginning of the day and you can fill it up after some uses. You still have healing resources left for short rests so you have not problems with the 5 min workday.
 

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top