D&D General Requesting permission to have something cool

[Minigiant]

To fulfill their playstyle preferences. These things are present in the game, but people are gating themselves behind class names and fluff and "officialness." If you can't find a way to play the character you want in 5E, it's because you aren't trying hard enough.

Like I said.

Official osmhical.

3PPs are almost all producing magic stuff to do cool things.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And you have staked a position and refuse to actually think about solutions. What can we do?

I continually put forth solutions. Across dozens of threads.

I know you know this because you have commented on them. There is literally no way you can reasonably say such a thing to me.

Please do not come in here an purposefully mischaracterize me.

 

[Tony Vargas]

So we have two different groups of people:

1: One group does not care that martials don't get anything cool, because if they got something cool it would make their play experience worse

TBF, it sounds like they care. Not caring would mean they feel whether martials get anything 'cool' or not has no bearing on their play experience. That'd be a third group. Does this group not exist? or is it perhaps some excluded middle? Or just not relevant?

2: Another group feels like the fact that martials don't get anything cool makes their gameplay experience worse, because there is nothing to look forward to as you level up.

I think there's an issue with the definition of 'martial' excluding spells, because, like, an EK or a Paladin surely, as a skilled weapon-wielder with the same chance to hit as a fighter and the Extra Attack feature, has 'martial skills' while having 4th or even 5th level spells as cool stuff to look forward to. Or, like, an Echo Knight is a fighter with the same Action-Surging, Extra-Attacking glory as other fighters, and some cool supernatural stuff from low level on.
The issue being spells (or on occasion some other supernatural power - but considering the ultimate handling of 5e psionics, basically just spells going forward) are just the 5e mechanic for being able to do anything high-level-'cool.'

I believe that for this reason the only reasonable solution to the balance problem is to have an entirely separate martial class that is essentially an "unchained" fighter, one that is properly balanced against the the stronger classes.

I could see something like this working fairly easily in 5e.2024, if there were any impetus at all to fix the issue - which, lets face it, 5e restored and then enjoyed tremendous commercial success, so from the exec pov, there is every reason to preserve the issue indefinitely, if not lean into it somehow - since MCing is expected to become core. You could simply have some classes with no higher levels, at all. Fighter could stop at 9th, for instance, or 6th, or exist only in Tier 1 - wherever you set the bar for mundanity no longer being competitive. From there, the player would have to choose some other class - or Prestige Class. So an "unchained" fighter with nominally non-supernatural but functionally balanced abilities could be an optional PrC that DMs can allow if they want that sort of thing in their campaign, otherwise, things like Eldritch Knight or Echo Knight or Rune Knight or whatever, could open up as PrCs instead of being sub-classes.
But, while it could work, even the idea of all classes having sub-classes kick in at the same level has been rejected, so, like all other reasonable, even possible, solutions, not a realistic practicable option.

 

[Corinnguard]

You mean a class with literally the same problem I described with not having enough ability to do interesting things due to the attrition mechanic?

You're trying to present gasoline as a solution to a fire and I'm not sure how it's meant to help your rhetorical point.

Why not try your hand at homebrewing to get what you want? curious

 

[Vaalingrade]

Why not try your hand at homebrewing to get what you want? curious

I'm just going to assume this is literally the first time you've seen one of my post and let this slide.

Curious.

Otherwise I'm going to ask anyone else who thinks they're going to make a point by coming at me of all people for not rolling my own to just stop and think a single nanosecond. One can have your own work and still expect the actual designers who are being paid to design the game to do that work and do it at a professional level too.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I said if it matters. Considering that the fighter can easily have double the HP of a wizard it may not to many players. Of course if you really want to win the AC race and don't want to hassle with multi-classing, do an eldritch knight with a shield. But a sword-and-board fighter will typically have a better AC even after shield in most games. Unless of course the wizard gets all the magical AC bonus items stacked on them.

ah, i may have missed the point of the message you were originally replying to and as such interpreted the wrong message from it, that is, i didn't realise it wasn't just about their general capabilites as an individual class as compared to others but in performing a specific role.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Like I said.

Official osmhical.

3PPs are almost all producing magic stuff to do cool things.

Do you just not like Level Up? That's fine, but you keep ignoring it as an option.

 

[Corinnguard]

I'm just going to assume this is literally the first time you've seen one of my post and let this slide.

I have actually seen several of your posts since joining the ENworld community 2 years ago.

 

[Reynard]

3PPs are almost all producing magic stuff to do cool things.

I am going to call shenanigans. There are tons of purely mundane fighter solutions alongside those magical ones. You are wither not looking very broadly or ignoring the ones that don't fit your argument. They exist.

 

[Reynard]

I continually put forth solutions. Across dozens of threads.

I know you know this because you have commented on them. There is literally no way you can reasonably say such a thing to me.

Please do not come in here an purposefully mischaracterize me.

First of all, I think you are mixing me up with a different poster because I have very intentionally stayed out of most of these threads (and should have continued to do so).

Second, if you have put forth dozens of solutions how could you possibly still be having the problem?

Now, if you feel I mischaracterized you, I honestly apologize. I am arguing against things you are saying, not you as a person and I do not intend it to be personal.