D&D 5E Revisited Setting News: Its not the 2023 Classic setting, but rather for 2024

[Paul Farquhar]

Of course, by that definition, VRG is no good for horror either.

True, it apples to any version, apart from the original two modules.

 

[overgeeked]

I literally said that. Also, player buy-in has nothing to do with rule sets.

No, but they’re both required or it doesn't work. A system like Toon cannot convey horror no matter the buy in. And even with a system custom built for horror, without player buy in it doesn‘t work.

 

[tetrasodium]

Are there any mechanics in any version of Ravenloft that thwart the horror tone (that don't also exist in D&D in general)?

That last bit is the key. When you need to phrase the question to exclude the problem mechanics it pretty much shines a spotlight on their presence. It's no coincidence that past ravenloft made changes ro core, wotc just wasn't willing to change the core 5e parts that thwart the horror tone.

Spoiler: how about these for a start?

So many things are tied to that reset button or written in ways that make it difficult for a gm to even make a short/long rest feel like there's any real risk other than things bordering on "rocks fall" level responses

The omission that makes it the gm's problem is the part of VRGtR

 

[Faolyn]

No, but they’re both required or it doesn't work. A system like Toon cannot convey horror no matter the buy in. And even with a system custom built for horror, without player buy in it doesn‘t work.

I strongly disagree with the first part. The system doesn't matter nearly as much as you think it does. I've run a lot of horror and have found that GM abilities and player buy-ins are the most important aspects.

A game like Toon, again, is an outlier--but even then, psychological horror could probably be done with it, even if it has a happy ending.

 

[Remathilis]

That last bit is the key. When you need to phrase the question to exclude the problem mechanics it pretty much shines a spotlight on their presence. It's no coincidence that past ravenloft made changes ro core, wotc just wasn't willing to change the core 5e parts that thwart the horror tone.

Spoiler: how about these for a start?

So many things are tied to that reset button or written in ways that make it difficult for a gm to even make a short/long rest feel like there's any real risk other than things bordering on "rocks fall" level responses

The omission that makes it the gm's problem is the part of VRGtR

I am beginning to feel I was blessed with one of the best groups ever.

Even back in 2e, we long rested. We handwaved healing though a combination of spells and items so that by the next day, we were at full health and had our spells prepped. It was even easier to justify in 3e, where "the cleric dumps all his remaining spell slots before bed into cure wounds" was basically the norm. Sometimes we'd handwave a 48 hour break where we rest, blow all spells, then rest again. (We called the BG healing, after the option to do so in BG2/Icewind Dale).

Somehow, my group never went 15 min nova, often ran into difficult fights and even died on occasion. We played Ravenloft in three editions and it never was a problem.

Lucky I guess.

 

[tetrasodium]

I am beginning to feel I was blessed with one of the best groups ever.

Even back in 2e, we long rested. We handwaved healing though a combination of spells and items so that by the next day, we were at full health and had our spells prepped. It was even easier to justify in 3e, where "the cleric dumps all his remaining spell slots before bed into cure wounds" was basically the norm. Sometimes we'd handwave a 48 hour break where we rest, blow all spells, then rest again. (We called the BG healing, after the option to do so in BG2/Icewind Dale).

Somehow, my group never went 15 min nova, often ran into difficult fights and even died on occasion. We played Ravenloft in three editions and it never was a problem.

Lucky I guess.

We often did too, but there's a difference between handwaving it when there's nothing pressing because the gm let's it & knowing that the mechanics are setup to discard any and all risks the gm points out because it's basically impossible to not come out ahead with at least a short rest or pretty much dead even at worst ready to give fate the finger and try for the long rest again if interrupted.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

No, but they’re both required or it doesn't work. A system like Toon cannot convey horror no matter the buy in. And even with a system custom built for horror, without player buy in it doesn‘t work.

The most effective horror takes place entirely within the imaginations of the players, and therefore is entirely system-independent.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

A game like Toon, again, is an outlier--but even then, psychological horror could probably be done with it, even if it has a happy ending.

You are nothing but a two dimensional drawing who finds themselves suddenly confronted with a three dimensional universe. Sounds like horror to me!

Really, Toon is a scenario, not a mechanic.

 

[teitan]

Endless promotion and a neverending parade of products will do it.

Yeah and it to mention it was launched late 1e so… does the 1e period count and the bean counters have been trying to kill it since 3.x era.

 

[teitan]

Boy: Tell me Grandpa, how did Slavery end in Golarion?

Grandpa: Ah yes, my boy, tis a tale of love, sacrifice, and the noble deeds of heroes. Why I dare say such an act could never be repeated again, for that how valorous this hero was and the effort of others. The majestic triumph of such an almost impossible goal. Alas, my feeble old mind lacks the once vigor of memories, so abundant in my youth. I'm afraid that, I cannot tell you h-
Door swings widely open as a heroic figure comes forth and the glory of light shines in from the outside.


THE Hero: Worry not lad, I shall tell you first-hand how we managed to open the eyes of vain society and how one should love their fellow brothers and sisters, treating them with humility and the same rights of all living b--

Grandpa: SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH puts lips on the Hero's lips we don't mention the "S" word around here anymore. It never existed to begin with.

Boy: But Grandpa, you just said this Hero and the his party did the impossible and-Grandpa puts hand around the boy's mouth

THE Hero: Aye, the youngling is right. I had just heard you say such a thing and mention such a tale just now as I passed by!

Grandpa proceeds to snap the boy's neck with cold efficacy and throws him out the open window.

THE Hero:

Grandpa: AAAH yes good hero, I had not noticed your glorious presence until just now. I need ye to slay a mighty dragon over in yonder mountain.

The Hero: The people have a right to know! Villain, murdering your own in cold blood. I sha-is shot in the back by Paizo. The old man then Coup-De-Graces THE Hero.

Paizo: Get rid of his body, like the rest of his party. the Grandpa nods and proceeds with the grim disposal And one more thing (Grandpa looks up) you never saw me.

whattheactualeff. Huh?