D&D 5E Reworking Warlock patrons as Cleric domain

[Tales and Chronicles]

As I said recently in another thread, I removed the monk, sorcerer and warlock from the available classes for my table, because while I love the thematic of the archetypes, the fluff and mechanics of the class itself felt too thin to need its own class. For now, the sorcerer's archetypes are moved to the wizard, metamagic to potential feats (WIP) and the monk is in limbo (I love the idea of the shield wielding, unarmored fighter-monk from Odyssey of the Dragonlords, so maybe they will be back with a different lore). I first thought of moving the warlock patrons to the wizard, but I had the idea today that they could make nice cleric domain since, in my head, warlock and cleric are both similar.

My idea:
Warlock as Patron

Evil Domain (Fiend Patron)

Level 1:
Bonus Spell are now Domain spell, aka automatically known and prepared as cleric spells.

Warlock patron feature 1 to domain feature 1
ie: Dark One's Blessing

level 2:
Big changes here: the 6th level patron features (all are short rest abilities) are
ie: Channel divinity: Dark One's Own Luck

level 6:
Also big changes here: the 10th level patron feature are now 6th level domain feature.
ie: Fiendish Resilience

level 8:
Here we need to give the either Divine Strike or Potent Cantrip
ie: Divine Strike: add 1d8 Necrotic Damage to weapon hit. Increases to 2d8 at level 14.

level 17:
The 14th level feature of the patron is moved to 17th level.
ie: Hurl Trough Hell

The themes fit, but one problem I have is the demon/fiend summoning spell, and the new ''modular summon'' we've seen in the last UA are not available to the cleric
Maybe they would be better as wizard tradition (Demonology, Fey Magic, Eldritch Astrology etc) ?

Any ideas?

 

[Charlaquin]

Please understand I am not here to rain on your parade, if you want to remove these classes and merge their story elements into other classes, more power to you. I am only asking g out of curiosity not judgment:

As I said recently in another thread, I removed the monk, sorcerer and warlock from the available classes for my table, because while I love the thematic of the archetypes, the fluff and mechanics of the class itself felt too thin to need its own class.

This stood out to me because it seems like the opposite of what you usually hear about the warlock: that it is mechanically interesting g, but that the fluff is basically a different flavor of cleric. So I’d be interested to hear your thoughts as to why you feel the worlock’s mechanics are “too thin to need their own class” but thematically they merit representation. I also don’t want to distract too much from the thread though, so if you’d rather talk about it in DMs or point me to a thread where you’ve discussed this before or something, that’d be cool.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

snip

No worries. For both of them, warlocks and sorcerer, feels like something I'd call ''a wizard, but''. The idea of the archetypes (being beholden to a fiend or archfey, sharing the arcane powers of dragons etc) are cool, but I dont think the execution of the classes themselves are that good; they do feel like an afterthought.

The short/rest at-will of the warlock is interesting, but I dont like the Cha-casting and the pact boons (and the hexblade...). Yet, if I'm not 100% convinced on where to put the really flavorful archetypes of the warlock, I may just rewind my changes and add back the warlock. To be honest, I have a harder time with the sorcerer and monk as currently presented.

Does that make sense? Maybe not, I'm just messing with the rules since my game is on hold.

 

[Minigiant]

Evil Domain (Fiend Patron)

Just call it the Fiend domain. 5e doesn't do domains based on alignment and the pact features don't line up with alignments.

Level 1:
Bonus Spell are now Domain spell, aka automatically known and prepared as cleric spells.

you need 2 7th and 9th level spells for the domain.
a fire spell for each.

Also you forgot heavy armor prof.

level 2:
Big changes here: the 6th level patron features (all are short rest abilities) are
ie: Channel divinity: Dark One's Own Luck

fine

level 6:
Also big changes here: the 10th level patron feature are now 6th level domain feature.
ie: Fiendish Resilience

fine

level 8:
Here we need to give the either Divine Strike or Potent Cantrip
ie: Divine Strike: add 1d8 Necrotic Damage to weapon hit. Increases to 2d8 at level 14.

Fiend pact was fire and poison based. Make Divine Strike fire or poison.

level 17:
The 14th level feature of the patron is moved to 17th level.
ie: Hurl Trough Hell

Fine

 

[Charlaquin]

No worries. For both of them, warlocks and sorcerer, feels like something I'd call ''a wizard, but''. The idea of the archetypes (being beholden to a fiend or archfey, sharing the arcane powers of dragons etc) are cool, but I dont think the execution of the classes themselves are that good; they do feel like an afterthought.

The short/rest at-will of the warlock is interesting, but I dont like the Cha-casting and the pact boons (and the hexblade...). Yet, if I'm not 100% convinced on where to put the really flavorful archetypes of the warlock, I may just rewind my changes and add back the warlock. To be honest, I have a harder time with the sorcerer and monk as currently presented.

Does that make sense? Maybe not, I'm just messing with the rules since my game is on hold.

Makes sense. They feel different enough to me, but now I see where you’re coming from. Thanks for elaborating!

 

[Xeviat]

@vincegetorix, I recently posted about wanting to merge the Warlock and the Sorcerer into a single class. I didn't get a whole lot of support. I feel like there's room for a different spellcaster from the others, but I feel like the Sorcerer and Warlock are too close to each other. A lot of their subclasses are close associations to magical creatures or aspects of magic. Whether it's from a pact or a bloodline, I can see them being the same. Fey, Fiend, Celestial, Shadow, Aberration ... Pact vs. bloodline could just be a flavor choice; it's not like the Warlock's pact is supported that much by the rules (4E Warlock had a benefit for killing cursed targets, which felt like a pact).

But I also want to "clear room" for the Mystic/Psion. Then we'd have 2 Int, 2 Wis, and 2 Cha primary casters.

I like the Monk, though. I'm working on a rewrite of the Monk that treats the Monk as a 1/2 Psion like the Paladin is a 1/2 Cleric, the Ranger is a 1/2 Druid, and the Artificer is a 1/2 Wizard.

The Pathfinder 2 Sorcerer really makes me want that in D&D, though.

 

[Minigiant]

The idea of the archetypes (being beholden to a fiend or archfey, sharing the arcane powers of dragons etc) are cool, but I dont think the execution of the classes themselves are that good; they do feel like an afterthought.

That's a problem with 1/2 the core classes in of D&D after OD&D. A few of the classes from 3e to 5e feel like they were included out of obligation then pondered deeper after the fact once the core set was done.

Anyway.
Before you try. A Fey cleric just feels wrong in my opinion. Maybe as a druid?

 

[Xeviat]

Before you try. A Fey cleric just feels wrong in my opinion. Maybe as a druid?

We already have the nature cleric.

 

[Xeviat]

Do remember, the Bard, Cleric, and Druid are sort of the "support" casters, while the Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard are the "offensive" casters. You're suggesting taking away more "offensive" casters.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

The Pathfinder 2 Sorcerer really makes me want that in D&D, though.

Yes, I've the same feeling.

Before you try. A Fey cleric just feels wrong in my opinion. Maybe as a druid?

You say that, but from my point of view, a cleric of Corellon, Mieliki, Shiala could use a fey domain. I also think that both deities and what we know as Patron can grant powers to a cleric, the term of their relatioship is left to the player.

Do remember, the Bard, Cleric, and Druid are sort of the "support" casters, while the Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard are the "offensive" casters. You're suggesting taking away more "offensive" casters.

Your right. My opinion is that cleric with warlock abilities and wizard with sorcerer features can blur those lines a little, I think.