RIP ST:TNG Movies

[Silver Moon]

In defense of Final Frontier:

I've read the book that Shatner's daughter wrote at the time about the making of it. Shatner's script certainly had its flaws, but Paramount totally destroyed his vision during post production by cutting the special effects budget in half, and then in half again. Lots of FX scenes were eliminated or curtailed, which weakened the entire film.

I'd also recommend that if you are planning to watch the film againt that you read the book too, as it makes the film far more watchable, since you look for certain things in various scenes.

 

[Altalazar]

Good thing. The fandom, as a whole, would never get behind a movie. Everyone wants a good movie but judging by the Internet traffic we never can all agree exactly what a "good" movie is. There's no sense for them to beat their heads against that brick wall.

That is probably true. And to all those who are saying 'good god, no' to a movie, well, geez - that is a poor attitude to take, I think. If they can make a good movie, it shouldn't matter when they do it.

Waiting a year won't magically make any theoretical film better.

If they make a Star Trek movie, just hope it will be a good one. If it is good, we'll all be glad, if it is not, we won't be.

 

[Darrin Drader]

If they make a Star Trek movie, just hope it will be a good one. If it is good, we'll all be glad, if it is not, we won't be.

I think that a good new movie is what the franchise needs to revitalize it. Star Trek II revitalized it the first time, I would argue that Star Trek IV and VI likewise did. First Contact helped, but that was released in the dark years of DS9 and Voyager, so maybe not so much there.

I had heard rumors of a mixed cast movie to followup Nemesis with Riker as captain, but I think that with the failure of the last movie, those plans are likely scrapped. That could have been good if it would have happened.

I'm personally not interested in any birth of the federation movies. I see little value looking back in time any further. Enterprise is enough for me. The Next Gen/DS9 Federation is just as worthwhile a universe as any, so why not continue to advance it into the future?

 

[Orius]

They should only do another Trek movie if they can do it without:

• Time Travel
• Quasi Deity Aliens
• Earth in Peril
• Destroying the Enterprise
• Killing a major character
• Ressurrecting a major character
• Inventing a new species

Not saying that specific movies that had those elements in them were bad (although specific ones were), just that they become crtuches. "We can/should only do a Trek movie if we include..."

Well, that pretty much leaves out any chance of a new movie (smirk).

 

[Orius]

I personally think the "viewers need a rest" argument is hooey. The viewers don't need a rest. They need solid characters and good writing. There aren't a whole lot of good genres TV shows out there right now. Give viewers something well crafted, and they'll watch it.

We are watching it -- it's called Stargate SG-1.

 

[Orius]

Sorry, bro, but as a longtime fan of Trek, it's oversaturating. There are so many stories that have been rehashed from past original episodes, that it is becoming a challenge for the production to write fresh ones, and even some of the fresh ones under the leadership of Branon Braga are a bunch of hooeys.

I agree. The constant plot, dialogue and viewpoint recycling is making Trek horribly stale, even with this Xindi plot. They need to dump B&B, and get some writers who can write something new, rather than rewriting TNG and Voyager scripts for the 6th time.

 

[Orius]

First of all, I liked Nemesis. It certainly was better than some of the movies, despite the plot holes, but that's what happens when you're trying to stick with something already developed.

Nemesis was alright, but I think the Picard clone thing with Shinzon sinked it. That and the dune buggy. The Romulans are one of the coolest Trek villains, matched IMO only by the Dominion and the Hirogen. I think they were poorly used in the movie, probably because Berman doesn't have a clue how to use them.

a Voyager movie could also, but it'd probably be a big threat from the Delta Quadrant, that only the somehow-reassembled crew can stop.

Yeah, but knowing Bermaga, that threat would invariably be Borg. They've been assimilated. A renewed and expansionist Hirogen culture (these guys at one point did have a huge space empire, after all) might be interesting as a DQ threat, but I doubt the current producers would come up with anything good there.

 

[Orius]

Yeah, Final Frontier was certainly not the best Trek movie. The plot was full of holes, the galaxy was too small, and it just didn't quite stay true to Trek. In fact I have to wonder how Rodenberry even gave the greenlight to that script (I think he was still alive at that time). Despite its numerous obvious shortcomings, there are some things about that movie I do like.

Roddenberry was certainly still around. He statated that he considered the movie to be apocryphal IIRC.

* Action/adventure. For me Star Trek has started as a smarter action adventure series. Kirk was the captain, yet he was always taking the enemy to the matt and getting the girl at the end. Of all the Trek movies, I think Final Frontier had the most physical action. This thing was full of brawls, and they were fun ones, with real stunt men rather than the ones that passed for real in the original series.

Yeah, cheesy but fun fights.

* The Kirk, Bones, Spock moments. It starts with the three old friends camping and it ends the same way. It reaffirms that they are not simply ship mates, but they are family.

Nod.

* Sybok. I liked the guy. True, we never heard of him before that movie, but he was interesting. A full-blooded vulcan and the half-brother of Spock who had turned his back on logic? It was an interesting premise to work with.

Heretic Vulcans always seem to be more likable than the usual boring Vulcan we typically meet. That was true of Sybok, and also of those Vulcans that we met in the first season of enterprise (except for the creep who mind-raped T'Pol.).

* The god issue. I realize that this is the very thing that people most object to. The people that immediately panned the movie thought it ludicrous that god would live at the center of the galaxy. My belief isn't that they were dealing with a deity of any kind but rather a being made of energy (which they've encountered numerous times in Trek) trying to escape imprisonment by taking over a starship. Yeah, a little far fetched, but still interesting. I don't see how Q is much different. Come to think of it, you could explain away the presence of this being by saying that its a rival of the Q continuum and they imprisoned it inside that barrier. It would make a certain amount of sense.

Works for me. One way of viewing it is that the creature wasn't God, but a powerful liar. Hey, maybe it's an outcast Q or something, who knows? We've seen these beings before, not just the Q, but Trelane, those people responsible for Charlie Evans (?), Organians, etc.

 

[Ranger REG]

I agree with Ranger Reg, lets see some movies. Build a writing/directing team that has a sense of all the things that make trek -trek, put together a crew of fresh faces and a new ship ad give us a good flick every two years.

Actually, a few fresh faces mix in with an all-star ensemble cast from the three 24th-century Trek series. And I cannot stress this enough, Nicholas Meyer should be involved.

As for Leonard Nimoy, he hasn't completely ruled out appearing on Star Trek. You just got to have a very good script for his character to be involved. In fact, it was his collaboration with Nicholas Meyer that made Star Trek VI work.

 

[FraserRonald]

Works for me. One way of viewing it is that the creature wasn't God, but a powerful liar. Hey, maybe it's an outcast Q or something, who knows? We've seen these beings before, not just the Q, but Trelane, those people responsible for Charlie Evans (?), Organians, etc.

I want to first make it clear that I hated ST5. Given that:

I thought it was established in the movie that this wasn't God. Granted, no one came out and said "You are not God" but there was the whole "Why would God need a starship?" and then Sybok trying to do the "I feel your pain" thing.

Maybe it's just me . . .