D&D 5E Should 5e have more classes (Poll and Discussion)?

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Well, my PHB disagrees with you.

Evasion is the only Rogue class ability that requires Dexterity.

No other Rogue class abilities require Dexterity, not even Sneak Attack.

But you're rewarded more for having Dex than any other stat. It's easier to get sneak attack if you hide before you attack, needing Dex to hide. You're rewarded for using ranged weapons, which are Dex based. It's very clear that rogues are meant to be stealth based, even if they can use Strength or Int/Cha with multiclassing.

 

[DND_Reborn]

But you're rewarded more for having Dex than any other stat. It's easier to get sneak attack if you hide before you attack, needing Dex to hide. You're rewarded for using ranged weapons, which are Dex based. It's very clear that rogues are meant to be stealth based, even if they can use Strength or Int/Cha with multiclassing.

Not really. You sneak attack if your enemy has an enemy within 5 feet of it (very common IME) or when you make a ranged attack against such a creature, which includes thrown weapons--which is STR, not DEX. Lastly, you can use advantage--which any 2nd level Barbarian can get--again, using STR.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Not really. You sneak attack if your enemy has an enemy within 5 feet of it (very common IME) or when you make a ranged attack against such a creature, which includes thrown weapons--which is STR, not DEX. Lastly, you can use advantage--which any 2nd level Barbarian can get--again, using STR.

Yes, I am aware that strength based rogues are good, if you multiclass into barbarian, but Dex based ones are rewarded more.

 

[Minigiant]

That "sneaky, acrobatic, and underhanded base assumption" is your assumption. Rogues don't have to use Dexterity to attack, or even have proficiency in Stealth, acrobatics or sleight of hand.
There's a whole lot of baggage from stereotypes and previous editions that simply aren't required for the 5e rogue. The only fairly important thing that rogues need Dex for is AC, but that is true of most classes.

Nah. The rogue is clearly Dex biased. Sneak attack only triggers with advantage and "flanking". The main way they get advantage is stealth. Flanking relies on having good defensive state, which for Rogues mean high Dex. The book has Dexterity as the rogue's primary score.

It was bringing Sherlock's wealth of knowledge about anatomy, psychology and fighting techniques into the combat.

Sure but it is to me is rather tame. There is little espression of lore and knowledge in how Insightful Fighting works.To me at least.

Do you want the character to just be really good at skills, or do you want them to be able to do things with skills that no other class can?
Do you want to be able to analyse a foe and determine its general capabilities with an Int check of the appropriate type, or do you want to actually be using your Int score for attack and damage rolls?

I want skill to have defined worldly effects like they do in the real world and many fantasy.

I wan Nature to allow me to analyze venoms. I want Arcana to allow the character to understand and affect magical items, obstacles, and beings.. I want Religion to reinforce holy objects and items. I want Persuassion and History to allow use of special terms and laws during negotiation.

I want my character to use theirbrain to do something other than magicing some problem away.

That is basically a Wizard. Or maybe Bard. Invoking the true names of things or people is a classical concept of spells.

Does Science not exist in D&D?
Does the FR have no law schools?
Does chemical reactions not happen in Eberron?
Do people not study philosophy in Dark Sun?

n Eberron for example, fantasy science is magic. Or perhaps more accurately, magic is fantasy science.

Does mundane science, arts, and diplomacy not exist in D&D?
Does fantasy science, arts, and diplomacy not exist in D&D?
Is everything magic?

 

[Mecheon]

We did! But we also didn't know how good it could be when you had support for your concept. 3e let that cat out of the bag and it won't go back in.

I wouldn't even say this is 3E's thing. This dates back to the kits in 2E if anything

3E just went absolutely ham on it

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Does mundane science, arts, and diplomacy not exist in D&D?
Does fantasy science, arts, and diplomacy not exist in D&D?
Is everything magic?

It could be argued that in an inherently magical setting magic and science converge at certain level. It is not the physics that govern the universe, it is the magical laws and mystical correlations. And it is precisely that by understanding these things and manipulating them in their advantage the wizards are able to cast their spells.

 

[Minigiant]

It could be argued that in an inherently magical setting magic and science converge at certain level. It is not the physics that govern the universe, it is the magical laws and mystical correlations. And it is precisely that by understanding these things and manipulating them in their advantage the wizards are able to cast their spells.

It could also be argued that science and magic are essentially two different path with two difference sources and logic. Magical physics and mundane physics could only interact at the endpoint of the reaction.

Having advanced science, realistic, scifi, or pure fantasy, lag because people got reliant on magic is a common trope. But to have all high science completely disappear and be totally undiscoverable is a completely new thing to me. It's a rabbithole I find strange.

Is causing fire with flint magic? Is convincing your lover to meet with you somewhere magic? Is drawing a silly picture that causes laughter magic?

I find this also strange as many dream and call for low magic worlds. Would these world not have more expert learned men who use the arts and sciences and not spellcasting.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm after a psion.

There's plenty of 3pp classes but they are usually niche, underpowered, overpowered or just outright suck.

Even the artificer one of the 3 subclasses just blows chunks.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It could also be argued that science and magic are essentially two different path with two difference sources and logic. Magical physics and mundane physics could only interact at the endpoint of the reaction.

Having advanced science, realistic, scifi, or pure fantasy, lag because people got reliant on magic is a common trope. But to have all high science completely disappear and be totally undiscoverable is a completely new thing to me. It's a rabbithole I find strange.

Is causing fire with flint magic? Is convincing your lover to meet with you somewhere magic? Is drawing a silly picture that causes laughter magic?

I find this also strange as many dream and call for low magic worlds. Would these world not have more expert learned men who use the arts and sciences and not spellcasting.

There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

There can be different paradigms of how these things work, and I'm not saying it has to be in certain way. I generally prefer highly magical settings to also be fundamentally magical though, instead of merely being normal world + magic. This means that there are not modern physics to be discovered, not necessarily even chemistry. On fundamental level mystical principles govern the universe. The world is made out of four classical elements or is the dreams of primordial First Gods or something like that. Perhaps the flint makes fire because they're are shards of Volcano God's heart, or perhaps because an ancient pact made by the first men and the fire elementals. Just think how ancient people believed the world to work; well in fantasy those beliefs can be true instead of our modern science.

This BTW is not how my brain works naturally, I'm pretty science-minded person, but perhaps exactly for that reason I find such esoteric metaphysics appealing.

 

[Minigiant]

There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

There can be different paradigms of how these things work, and I'm not saying it has to be in certain way. I generally prefer highly magical settings to also be fundamentally magical though, instead of merely being normal world + magic. This means that there are not modern physics to be discovered, not necessarily even chemistry. On fundamental level mystical principles govern the universe. The world is made out of four classical elements or is the dreams of primordial First Gods or something like that. Perhaps the flint makes fire because they're are shards of Volcano God's heart, or perhaps because an ancient pact made by the first men and the fire elementals. Just think how ancient people believed the world to work; well in fantasy those beliefs can be true instead of our modern science.

This BTW is not how my brain works naturally, I'm pretty science-minded person, but perhaps exactly for that reason I find such esoteric metaphysics appealing.

I am not for "normal world + magic" either. I like when fantasy worlds use their own made up science and stuff.
I'm not a fan of every adventurer with a brain being a spellcaster and all science in fantasy being spells.
Some worlds can do this but it shouldn't be a base assumption in D&D.
I'd be cool with a herbalist injecting a concotion into the fighter's neck that powers him up that isn't a magic potion but a mixture of extracted chemicals from special fantasy roots and leaves.