Single-Level Flavor (heh!) Classes
- Thread starter TeeSeeJay
- Start date
Iron_Chef
First Post
The Proconsul said:@Graf: He specializes in influencing his master, literally throwing in the weight of his expertise in arcane matters. Admittedly, not all arcane advisors would do this - but somewhere, assumptions have to be made.
Perhaps you find this more logical
It might be cooler if the court mage could simply use his advice ability on anyone once per week. It seems way more useful, but the limit on use makes up for the increased utility, IMO. You could also, instead of calling it court mage, make it something more generic, so as to cover a wider range of character archetypes, maybe for enchantment specialists?
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The Proconsul
First Post
Well, I started with the idea of an advisor, not an enchantment specialist. And let's not forget that there IS already an enchantment specialist.
As for making it possible to influence anyone -- frankly, I do not know. I think it would be less flavourful, which is against the very concept of these classes. And a wizard is giving up even less by taking this class than, say, a fighter: he merely gets his few bonus feats a level later, as well as the familiar abilities.
As for making it possible to influence anyone -- frankly, I do not know. I think it would be less flavourful, which is against the very concept of these classes. And a wizard is giving up even less by taking this class than, say, a fighter: he merely gets his few bonus feats a level later, as well as the familiar abilities.
OK, so let's see if I get this right:
This "single-level prestige class" would provide, at most, some sort of save bonus(es), a BAB bonus not exceeding +1, a few skill points, and a special class ability approximating a feat (if it's not a legitimate feat already).
Like, for example, +1 Will and +0 Reflex and +0 Fortitude saves, +0 BAB, +6 points to spend in predetermined skills, and the ability to use a quarterstaff to hang up wet laundry to dry.
BOOOOOOORING.
Why not just give the guy a magic amulet with the same bonuses attached and a title as well, bestowed by the king for exemplary behavior? Same results, but doesn't waste a character level.
This "single-level prestige class" would provide, at most, some sort of save bonus(es), a BAB bonus not exceeding +1, a few skill points, and a special class ability approximating a feat (if it's not a legitimate feat already).
Like, for example, +1 Will and +0 Reflex and +0 Fortitude saves, +0 BAB, +6 points to spend in predetermined skills, and the ability to use a quarterstaff to hang up wet laundry to dry.
BOOOOOOORING.
Why not just give the guy a magic amulet with the same bonuses attached and a title as well, bestowed by the king for exemplary behavior? Same results, but doesn't waste a character level.
Iron_Chef
First Post
I don't find these flavor classes boring, Bugaboo, or I wouldn't be spending my time on the project. I think the idea has merit and opens up some nice choices for both PCs and NPCs that can't necessarily be done with the core classes, even with multiclassing. I don't think any of these warrant a PrC multi-level version and this way one doesn't have to wait until x level until one can get the concept they want. These aren't about overpowering the game but about presenting options.
A DM would have a much better encounter throwing flavor classes at his PCs. It keeps them on their toes and makes "everyday" people more interesting and capable of interacting with heroes on their own terms.
Examples: A Legionnaire 1/Fighter 2 is much more dangerous than a Fighter 3, for example. A Slaver 1/Fighter 2 is much better as a slaver than a Rogue 1/Fighter 2. Instead of a Commoner 1 to represent the sultry gold-digging bar maid, use a Deceiver 1 and she might bend a poor helpless PC around her pretty finger! In short, there are a lot of new possibilities opened up by the addition of these so-called "flavor classes."
A DM would have a much better encounter throwing flavor classes at his PCs. It keeps them on their toes and makes "everyday" people more interesting and capable of interacting with heroes on their own terms.
Examples: A Legionnaire 1/Fighter 2 is much more dangerous than a Fighter 3, for example. A Slaver 1/Fighter 2 is much better as a slaver than a Rogue 1/Fighter 2. Instead of a Commoner 1 to represent the sultry gold-digging bar maid, use a Deceiver 1 and she might bend a poor helpless PC around her pretty finger! In short, there are a lot of new possibilities opened up by the addition of these so-called "flavor classes."
I think that this is an interesting concept, too, but like kits in 2E I think that 99% of the time stuff like this could come from straight role-playing and proper selection of skills and/feats. Sometimes, though, having a game mechanic as a "hook" for a character concept can be fun. In short, I look forward to continuing to see what people come up with.
That said, a comment:
I hope that this doesn't turn into a bunch of generic things like:
***
Bartender
The bartender tends bar at a local inn or tavern.
BAB: +0
Saves: Fort +2, Will +0, Ref +0
Class Skills: Alchemy, Bluff, Diplomacy, Profession (Bartending), Sense Motive, Knowledge(Spirits), Knowledge (Local). Skill Points: 4
Permanent Skills: The Bartender may choose any four skills from the above list to be permanent class skills.
Bartender's Skill (ex): The bartender can create spirits that have the effects of Sleep or Charm Person Spell (DC 10 + 1/2 Bartender's Character Level + Ranks in Alchemy).
***
That's really not the point. It's too generic and lame. Something like the Court Mage is a cool idea, though, that's not represented fully in the core-rules.
That said, a comment:
I hope that this doesn't turn into a bunch of generic things like:
***
Bartender
The bartender tends bar at a local inn or tavern.
BAB: +0
Saves: Fort +2, Will +0, Ref +0
Class Skills: Alchemy, Bluff, Diplomacy, Profession (Bartending), Sense Motive, Knowledge(Spirits), Knowledge (Local). Skill Points: 4
Permanent Skills: The Bartender may choose any four skills from the above list to be permanent class skills.
Bartender's Skill (ex): The bartender can create spirits that have the effects of Sleep or Charm Person Spell (DC 10 + 1/2 Bartender's Character Level + Ranks in Alchemy).
***
That's really not the point. It's too generic and lame. Something like the Court Mage is a cool idea, though, that's not represented fully in the core-rules.
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GuardianLurker
Adventurer
Hmm.
A little late in the game perhaps, but how about limiting saves and BAB to a total of +2? E.g. +1 Fort, +1 BAB or +2 Fort.
I'd also suggest treating "always class skills" as a single feat, and limiting the "profession class" (I like that better) to a single feat, or two feats with restrictions/prereqs.
What we want to avoid is a multiple-level PrC squished down to one level.
A little late in the game perhaps, but how about limiting saves and BAB to a total of +2? E.g. +1 Fort, +1 BAB or +2 Fort.
I'd also suggest treating "always class skills" as a single feat, and limiting the "profession class" (I like that better) to a single feat, or two feats with restrictions/prereqs.
What we want to avoid is a multiple-level PrC squished down to one level.
Forgot the other thing I was going to say:
Some of these could really be represented by giving players some flexibility in skill choice. For example:
A fighter player comes up with a cool background story and a role-playing hook. He lives in a landlocked town and is the son of the town's former Captain of the Guard, who was forced to retire in disgrace. His father taught him a lot about military strategy, but he was constantly picked on as a child because of his father's disgrace, and therefore has a huge chip on his shoulder, believing that the world owes him something. He's a bully to everyone he meets, trying to set an example before people figure out who he is and make the connection with his father. Soldiering is all he's ever known.
An idea would be to let this player swap out his class skills of "swim" (it's a landlocked city) and "craft" (his father only taught him what he knew about being a soldier) for "Intimidate" and "Knowledge (Military Tactics)".
Pick some appropriate feats to fit the background, and then there's no need for a flavor class.
Still, I think that the flavor-class is a neat idea. It just doesn't need to go overboard for every tiny change that a character wants to make.
Some of these could really be represented by giving players some flexibility in skill choice. For example:
A fighter player comes up with a cool background story and a role-playing hook. He lives in a landlocked town and is the son of the town's former Captain of the Guard, who was forced to retire in disgrace. His father taught him a lot about military strategy, but he was constantly picked on as a child because of his father's disgrace, and therefore has a huge chip on his shoulder, believing that the world owes him something. He's a bully to everyone he meets, trying to set an example before people figure out who he is and make the connection with his father. Soldiering is all he's ever known.
An idea would be to let this player swap out his class skills of "swim" (it's a landlocked city) and "craft" (his father only taught him what he knew about being a soldier) for "Intimidate" and "Knowledge (Military Tactics)".
Pick some appropriate feats to fit the background, and then there's no need for a flavor class.
Still, I think that the flavor-class is a neat idea. It just doesn't need to go overboard for every tiny change that a character wants to make.
Iron_Chef
First Post
I agree that these should offer something that a core class doesn't but not powerful enough to warrant a full blown PrC.
THOUGHTS ON BALANCING MECHANICS (aka "Restrictions")
1. Limiting saves and BAB to a total of +2 split between them. BAB cannot be better than +1 in any event.
2. Only providing one feat or special ability (in addition to permanent class skills) if it gets either a +1 BAB or +1 existing spellcasting class level.
3. Limiting skill points to to the number of class skills (already adopted).
4. Each offers up a handful of class skills that become permanent class skills regardless of class (already adopted, but do they need to be specified as a class ability?).
Any other suggestions?
THOUGHTS ON BALANCING MECHANICS (aka "Restrictions")
1. Limiting saves and BAB to a total of +2 split between them. BAB cannot be better than +1 in any event.
2. Only providing one feat or special ability (in addition to permanent class skills) if it gets either a +1 BAB or +1 existing spellcasting class level.
3. Limiting skill points to to the number of class skills (already adopted).
4. Each offers up a handful of class skills that become permanent class skills regardless of class (already adopted, but do they need to be specified as a class ability?).
Any other suggestions?
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