skills: so when your INT goes up...?

[Destil]

As far as the rules, everyone above is right....

As far as ease of play, this is a real pain. Way too much effort for the result. It will typicaly only be even the least bit unbalanced with a wizard, and from my experience they usualy have more skill points than they know what to do with. In most other cases, in fact, it's far better balanced to just give them the retroactive skill points (otherwise increasing Int is almost never worth while). It makes things so much easier to just give them to a PC (so their skill rank total is always easy to figure out), and not worry about it in my experience.

Note: I say this manily in refrence of making PCs at higher than 1st level. If you're just adding one level to an existing PC at a time going by the book is in fact easier. But usualy the PC's don't mind the extra hassle in exchange for the skill points

 

[Tellerve]

Lord Pendragon- Yes it would be an immediate effect, or could stagger it in. Or you could role-play it in, *gasp* or whatever. As has been said there are various ways to do it and everyone will do it their own way. I've noticed lately that people see the dnd rules oftentimes just a bit differently from each other and are very oftentimes not open to change to something that they didn't think of as the way it works.

Not that any of them are wrong, just not the way you got into thinking and so feel "safe" with that way of thinking about it.

Tellerve

 

[Staffan]

But your concept only works with INT based skills... mine works with any existing skill that the character has at the time of improvement to his/her intelligence. YMMV

Umm... yes? I don't think you should in any way learn to climb or sneak better just because you put on a headband of intellect. You're able to reason better, and remember things that are happening *now* better, but the hours you wasted two years ago trying to figure out which side of the horse to sit on won't suddenly become unwasted.

 

[Taren Nighteyes]

Although I mostly read the rules forum, I felt compelled to post on this subject:

The game stats of a character represent the capacity/capability of the character. So...when you raise a stat (in a permant sense), then that would also raise the capacity of that character. Like exchanging a medium drink for a large. The large holds more

Should retroactive skill points be immediately applied? How about that extra language they might get?

A) If the character had planned to raise their intelligence, and had begun training/learning the information necessary to warrant a skill point/language ability....then I would apply immediately. ("I am practicing my tumbling", "I am reading the Intro to Bugbears language book before I sleep every night", etc).

B) If not A, then spend some down time learning/filling the excess brain capacity up

Just my two cents,

Taren Nighteyes

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Lord Pendragon- Yes it would be an immediate effect, or could stagger it in. Or you could role-play it in, *gasp* or whatever. As has been said there are various ways to do it and everyone will do it their own way. I've noticed lately that people see the dnd rules oftentimes just a bit differently from each other and are very oftentimes not open to change to something that they didn't think of as the way it works.

Not that any of them are wrong, just not the way you got into thinking and so feel "safe" with that way of thinking about it.

Tellerve

I feel "safe" with a way of thinking that makes sense, *gasp* or whatever. I could roleplay in the fighter blasting Heightened Fireballs from his arse, but it still wouldn't make any sense. Similarly, putting on a Headband of Intellect +6 and suddenly knowing how to Ride twice as well doesn't make any sense to me. It isn't like there are complex algorhythms of riding that the PC can only now fully comprehend. There is no mathematical formula that, once understood, allows a rider to suddenly sit his saddle better than before. Riding takes time and practice. Becoming more agile certainly helps, as does the practice (skill points). Smarts ain't going to cut it.

Of course, YMDV.

 

[Virtuaalivalo]

Children, children... Why don't you just calm down a bit? I'm sure that both sides' point of view has already been made clear. So, I'd suggest that you stop getting at each other's throats until you can state something that hasn't already been said here. That would save a lot of trouble and make everyone feel better.

As for the answer to the original question, I'd say it's up to the DM. Personally, I don't give the skill points retroactively, but I think this is one of the things a DM should agree about with his/her players.

 

[dcollins]

Virtuaalivalo, welcome to the boards.

Just for your information, the preceding was an entirely civil discussion by the standards of any messageboard. You may want to poke around a bit to see what a discussion in need of "calming down" really looks like.

And the answer to the original question is actually explicit in the rulebook, as mentioned earlier.

Again, welcome.

 

[Philip]

All the benefits of other abilities can be retro-actively applied, except for INT. IMO this is not a balance issue, but a game logic issue, as explained in previous postings: you cannot retroactively 'learn' something.

But if you follow through with this 'game logic' you should also give a character that has worn a headband of intellect for an entire level additional skill points. Because during that time he had extra capacity to learn and pick ups skills. Which he doesn't lose when he takes of the headband but gets to keep forever, right?

Because I think this is kinda weird, and creates an accounting nightmare as well, I am strongly in favor of the house-rule that retro-actively awards (or takes away) skill points when INT is raised permanently (by inherent or level bonusses).

 

[Lord Pendragon]

But if you follow through with this 'game logic' you should also give a character that has worn a headband of intellect for an entire level additional skill points. Because during that time he had extra capacity to learn and pick ups skills. Which he doesn't lose when he takes of the headband but gets to keep forever, right?

As a matter of fact, that's exactly what I do. I don't really see it as an accounting nightmare. I don't destroy/steal/Disjoin magic items often enough to have to worry about disappearing Headbands of Intellect. Usually it'll progress like this: Step 1. PC has standard skill points for his Int. Step 2. PC gains a Headband of Intellect and gains more skill points. Step 3 (possibly). PC gains a stronger Headband of Intellect and gains yet more skill points. That's only two bits of information that need to be tracked: the level the PC got the first headband, and the level he got the second.

However, if the campaign is rife with gaining/losing Headbands of Intellect, I concede that it could get messier.

 

[mikebr99]

Umm... yes? I don't think you should in any way learn to climb or sneak better just because you put on a headband of intellect. You're able to reason better, and remember things that are happening *now* better, but the hours you wasted two years ago trying to figure out which side of the horse to sit on won't suddenly become unwasted.

My thinking is that EVERY skill has some theory or some extra benefit that would be realized from a higher INT.

With climbing for example, you might remember some kewl little tricks (previously forgotten) from your first teacher. OR, you are able to analyze the cracks/fissures better and therebye find the easier/safer way faster...

I am just saying, the person that taught you haw to climb all those years ago probably had way more skill points invested. And he/she probably taught you all he/she knew about the subject (time permitting of course). Most of what he/she said or showed you went in one ear and out the other... or so you thought. Yet when you got smarter... it all started to come back and make sense. YMMV


Mike