Sneak attack and multiple rays.

[Shin Okada]

OK I found the answer, a kind of. It is in P.86 of the Complete Arcane.

Multiple Hits
Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round. When the caster gets a bonus on damage with such spells (including sneak attack damage), the extra damage applies only to the first attack, whether that attack hits or not.

But Infiniti2000's question still remains. All the rays from a Scorching Ray spells fired simultaneously. And can target different opponents. But that will be the case when I "choose" which ray to be the 1st one, I guess.

 

[Nac_Mac_Feegle]

Not true, if you have the surprise on your opponent, then he is flat-footed for the entire surprise round so all attacks would get sneak attack. Or if you won initiative, your opponent would be flat-footed until his turn. Thats why two-weapon fighting rogues get sneak attack on all their attacks.

In the surprise round, sure, they are flat footed.

But if combat has initiated, and you get the drop on someone because you were stealthed the first round, then only your first strike would be a backstab, after that your revelaed, and your opponenent, begins as hes already combat active, would get his dex, and so long as hes not flanked, they arent sneak attacks.

Likewise pointed out to me, sneak attack is for melee, rays arent melee.

Now how exactly are we saying your using multiple rays as a first strike?

You cant stack sneak attack wiht rays, so I assume you have some sort of other bonus damage form getting a first strike. This then means you need to describe what governs the extra damage

If extra damage comes form being flat footed, just like sneak attack, then in a surprise round, each individual ray that requires an attack roll, would benefit from extra damage. If only one roll is needed, only the first ray gets the damage

So what parameters are allowing you your extra damage? This might help us clearly define how multiple shots would work

Feegle Out

 

[Thanee]

How about if there is no first ray? Such as: "The rays may be fired at the same or different targets, but all bolts must be aimed at targets within 30 feet of each other and fired simultaneously."

Then you choose in which order you resolve the simultaneous attacks and apply sneak attack to the first one.

Bye
Thanee

 

[FEADIN]

In the surprise round, sure, they are flat footed.

But if combat has initiated, and you get the drop on someone because you were stealthed the first round, then only your first strike would be a backstab, after that your revelaed, and your opponenent, begins as hes already combat active, would get his dex, and so long as hes not flanked, they arent sneak attacks.

Likewise pointed out to me, sneak attack is for melee, rays arent melee.

Now how exactly are we saying your using multiple rays as a first strike?

You cant stack sneak attack wiht rays, so I assume you have some sort of other bonus damage form getting a first strike. This then means you need to describe what governs the extra damage

If extra damage comes form being flat footed, just like sneak attack, then in a surprise round, each individual ray that requires an attack roll, would benefit from extra damage. If only one roll is needed, only the first ray gets the damage

So what parameters are allowing you your extra damage? This might help us clearly define how multiple shots would work

Feegle Out

I think you're wrong, if you have one attack on a flat footed opponent it's a sneak, if you have multiple attacks on a flat footed opponents they are all sneak.
Sneak attack is for melee and ranged combat and every attack that uses a "to hit" roll.
As said in tha Complete Arcane, spells with multiple ray/touch add only once the bonus damage, strange but it's only one spell even if you roll 3 hits.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Then you choose in which order you resolve the simultaneous attacks and apply sneak attack to the first one.

Bye
Thanee

But that's not what Li Shenron said.

 

[Nac_Mac_Feegle]

You are exactly right, flat footed, or flanked, allows full sneak attack, I just wasnt sure that getting a surprise put the person in the "flat Footed" category for every shot, or just the first.

The only thing I can think of right now, where you roll one attack, for multiple object, and only put damage on the first, is the Arcane Archers "split arrow" feat, where you fire an arrow at a target, and it splits into 3 arrows, if your eligble for sneak attack, only the first one gets the damage. Someone wiht a DMG confirm that?

again I think the circumstances are vitally important here.

If you are in the surprise round, and you hit 3 different targets, while having the sneak attack ability, all 3 targets are elligible. Its like a rogue sneaking into the middle of 3 gaurds, hes got say 4 shots, and all 3 are in reach, they are flat footed to him, so he can get of 4 hits, and all hits are eligible for sneak attack

Feegle Out

 

[FEADIN]

Yes, if you roll once for a manyshot feat only one arrow is doing sneak damage, because it is only "one attack" it's the way they treated the multifire of Scorching Ray, it's only "one" spell, one "attack action" even if you roll x to hit, in the case of the multi-attacking rogue it's x différent actions (full attack) and with a decrease of the attack bonus that you don't have with the spell (full aattack bonus on each ray).
It may seems strange I know

 

[JimAde]

Yes, if you roll once for a manyshot feat only one arrow is doing sneak damage, because it is only "one attack" it's the way they treated the multifire of Scorching Ray, it's only "one" spell, one "attack action" even if you roll x to hit, in the case of the multi-attacking rogue it's x différent actions (full attack) and with a decrease of the attack bonus that you don't have with the spell (full aattack bonus on each ray).
It may seems strange I know

The fact that you get your full BAB with all the rays is a good point. That makes it more reasonable to think you only get the bonus damage once. The quote Shin Okada posted makes it clear that this is the rule, but the full BAB on all the attacks makes it "feel right" to me as well. Thanks.

 

[Thanee]

But that's not what Li Shenron said.

Of course it is. The part about multiple simultaneous rays just wasn't specified.

There's always a first one, because you do not roll them simultaneously (usually ).

Bye
Thanee