Sneaking Rogue’s and AoO

[melkoriii]

Sneaking Rogue’s and AoO

Do you let a foe’s get AoO against a Rogue that successfully Sneaks past then but moves though there Threatened space?


Say a Guard is watching a Gate and sees the Rogue near by but loses the Rogue in the darkness. He stands guard at the gate trying to find the Rogue but fails to Spot/Listen the Rogue and the Rouge sneaks by having to go though two of the Guard’s Threatened spaces and dose so with a 15 foot move.

Do you let the Guard get a AoO on the Rogue for moving within his Threatened Space?


To me the Guard failed his spot/listen and so has no idea that the Rogue has made it past him and so does not get a AoO against the Rogue.

What do you think?

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Sneaking Rogue’s and AoO

To me the Guard failed his spot/listen and so has no idea that the Rogue has made it past him and so does not get a AoO against the Rogue.

What do you think?

I couldn't agree more. How could he get an AoO on the rogue if he isn't even aware that the rogue exists in the first place? Know what I mean?

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

The lack of AoO's while flat-footed generally takes care of this problem. Some issues still exist for those with Combat Reflexes.

 

[melkoriii]

The lack of AoO's while flat-footed generally takes care of this problem. Some issues still exist for those with Combat Reflexes.

I was meaning that Combat has started when the Guard noticed the Rogue at first so the first round of combat had passed. The Guard lost sight of the rogue as he was moveing up in the darkness.

Still in comblat mind you.

 

[maddman75]

See this thread

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35336

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

I was meaning that Combat has started when the Guard noticed the Rogue at first so the first round of combat had passed. The Guard lost sight of the rogue as he was moveing up in the darkness.

Still in comblat mind you.

Then yes. Nothing says you don't. The orge is 'on guard' and constantly threatening the surrounding squares.

As a DM I tell a player "Something provokes an AoO from you, pick a square if wish to attempt an AoO."

Note the advantage is still to the unseen rogue in that case. The combat model makes it clear you do not just walk past foes without consequences.

Outside of combat I don't like the results of this with combat reflexes. That feat is already good enough.

 

[kreynolds]

I was meaning that Combat has started when the Guard noticed the Rogue at first so the first round of combat had passed. The Guard lost sight of the rogue as he was moveing up in the darkness.

Still in comblat mind you.

Ah. Then I'll rephrase...but first, its important to note that you can't Hide while being observed, but I'll just assume a Bluff was used to distract the guard, or they have Hide In Plain Sight or something.

I still say they don't get an AoO. The guard simply doesn't no know where the rogue is, and if he doesn't know what the rogue is doing, how can he make an AoO for something that he didn't even know happened?

 

[Coredump]

DA, that makes no sense. If you don't know they are there, then how can you get an AoO?? So if they are invisible, you still allow it? How about if the guard has his eyes closed? You can't react to something being there is you don't know it is there.

OTOH, it should be *very* difficult to 'lose' someone in the shadows once combat has started, and I may give him another/bonus spot check if the rogue passes that close. *if* he makes the spot check, then give the AoO. (Maybe with a negative for it being unexpected, maybe not)

.

 

[kreynolds]

OTOH, it should be *very* difficult to 'lose' someone in the shadows once combat has started, and I may give him another/bonus spot check if the rogue passes that close. *if* he makes the spot check, then give the AoO. (Maybe with a negative for it being unexpected, maybe not)

Technically, the guard would get a Spot and Listen check to oppose the Rogue every round the rogue made a check of her own.

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

DA, that makes no sense. If you don't know they are there, then how can you get an AoO?? So if they are invisible, you still allow it? How about if the guard has his eyes closed? You can't react to something being there is you don't know it is there.

.

Remember, my comments are when the guard knows the rogue is 'somewhere' near by. He isn't sitting playing cards, he's in combat and fighting for his life.

Second, we've got an abstract combat system here. It's always good to remember that fact. In general people 'threaten' the area all around them. They take jabs, make checking swings, and so on. Most people can only effectively do so with a single facing (One AoO a round.)

In the case of the rogue walking past the guard in combat he just wasn't paying enough attention and potentially walked into such a swing. The guard was lucky (or somewhat less lucky with good tactics) and happened to focus on the right square.

I don't believe that lack of AoO's because you can't see a foe is justified by the written rules. It is not a side effect of blind for example. I also think invisibility is plenty effective as is.

At worse have the rogue take 24 seconds or so to sneak past the guard in 5' steps.

JPM