D&D (2024) Sorcerer (Playtest 7)

[Stalker0]

I'm going to push in survey for them to replace Clockwork with Divine Soul, I love Clockwork, but Divine Soul like Favoured Soul before it, is too iconic to get left out.

right now it seems the celestial warlock might have beaten up the FS and taken its stuff.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Aberrant Mind in my experience is one of those things that is quietly very popular (psychic Lovecraftian sorcerer) with a small but very vocal minority of haters, all of whom are fans of either 2e or 3.X psions. I expect it to make it into the final PHB

I've never seen someone champing at the bit to play a Clockwork Soul - but it's effective enough. But of the rest Divine is fighting with the more interesting Celestial Warlock, Shadow is just missing most of the interesting nethermancy spells, and Storm doesn't just need extra spells but a significant rework because trying to use its abilities will get you killed.

 

[Stalker0]

Now that Warlocks no longer have the requirement of "pact" abilities....I once again ask the question, "isn't the warlock just a better sorceror?"

I mean if you added in a warlock subclass that was "inner magic" (aka your power comes from yourself rather than a patron), and basically gave them a few sorc things (and removing the requirement of focuses to cast spells, because your magic is innate damn it!)....honestly that seems like a pretty solid sorc to me. You have at-will magics, you can replenish magic faster than that snooty wizard.....its a clear distinctive theme that stands on its own.

Ever time I see a sorc I just go "doesn't the warlock do this motiff better?", and with this new version I still feel that way.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Now that Warlocks no longer have the requirement of "pact" abilities....I once again ask the question, "isn't the warlock just a better sorceror?"

I mean if you added in a warlock subclass that was "inner magic" (aka your power comes from yourself rather than a patron), and basically gave them a few sorc things (and removing the requirement of focuses to cast spells, because your magic is innate damn it!)....honestly that seems like a pretty solid sorc to me. You have at-will magics, you can replenish magic faster than that snooty wizard.....its a clear distinctive theme that stands on its own.

Ever time I see a sorc I just go "doesn't the warlock do this motiff better?", and with this new version I still feel that way.

I mean, yes. The 3E-style Sorcerer should have been deleted in 5E.

The problem is, the Sorcerer in the DND Next playtest was a cool weird spellblade-kinda class that justified it's own existence. And after the last Next playtest, WotC just bait-and-switched it for the 3E Sorcerer, with no warning and despite them saying it was popular (and not testing if the 3E Sorcerer was - I strongly suspect it would not have been). So it essentially just got slipped in as part of Operation Apology Edition, which also used time-travel to airlift the Monk directly from the 1970s to now, for no good reason.

Now they're trying to give Sorcerer some kind of identity as a sort of "magic barbarian" in that it has a Rage-like ability and stuff, but it's still essentially overlapped pretty hard by Warlock and Wizard.

 

[Weiley31]

Sorcerers getting "Spell Rage" is pretty neat.

 

[Horwath]

I mean, yes. The 3E-style Sorcerer should have been deleted in 5E.

The problem is, the Sorcerer in the DND Next playtest was a cool weird spellblade-kinda class that justified it's own existence. And after the last Next playtest, WotC just bait-and-switched it for the 3E Sorcerer, with no warning and despite them saying it was popular (and not testing if the 3E Sorcerer was - I strongly suspect it would not have been). So it essentially just got slipped in as part of Operation Apology Edition, which also used time-travel to airlift the Monk directly from the 1970s to now, for no good reason.

Now they're trying to give Sorcerer some kind of identity as a sort of "magic barbarian" in that it has a Rage-like ability and stuff, but it's still essentially overlapped pretty hard by Warlock and Wizard.

if only they give sorcerer spell points by default combined with metamagic for total amount it would make it at least a little different from wizard/warlock

 

[DEFCON 1]

if only they give sorcerer spell points by default combined with metamagic for total amount it would make it at least a little different from wizard/warlock

It's probably going to be in the DMG, so it'll still be available for those that want it. But at some point both players and DMs have to accept that if they want to play their D&D games a certain way, then they have to be willing to work together to create the game they want-- using ALL the options available to them in all the books. They can't just rely on WotC to give it to them.

No one needs Spell Points to be the default, they can just use the variant rule in the DMG. And at some point both players and DMs have to accept that if they want to play their D&D game in a very specific way... then they need to come and work together to create it and use all those rules available that allow them to do so. But it's not WotC's responsibility to go around policing every game just because some players want to use X rule, but their DMs don't. Rather, those players and DMs either need to come to a compromise, or else just stop playing together.

 

[Horwath]

It's probably going to be in the DMG, so it'll still be available for those that want it. But at some point both players and DMs have to accept that if they want to play their D&D games a certain way, then they have to be willing to work together to create the game they want-- using ALL the options available to them in all the books. They can't just rely on WotC to give it to them.

No one needs Spell Points to be the default, they can just use the variant rule in the DMG. And at some point both players and DMs have to accept that if they want to play their D&D game in a very specific way... then they need to come and work together to create it and use all those rules available that allow them to do so. But it's not WotC's responsibility to go around policing every game just because some players want to use X rule, but their DMs don't. Rather, those players and DMs either need to come to a compromise, or else just stop playing together.

or just to have variety between almost same classes, you say:
This class uses spell slots.
This class uses spell points.

as an optional variant you can switch it how you like it.

 

[DEFCON 1]

or just to have variety between almost same classes, you say:
This class uses spell slots.
This class uses spell points.

as an optional variant you can switch it how you like it.

I mean, sure, you could put that line in the PHB. But do you need to?

Yes, there are variant rules in the DMG. But is it really important to identify the rules in the PHB that have 'alternatives' and include sidebars that say "Check the DMG for other versions"? I mean... I won't dismiss the idea out of hand... but at the same time it just feels to me like we're just hand-holding D&D players and reminding them to "Don't forget the DMG!" rather than just treating them like adults who can find and read the DMG themselves.

But then again, having seen some of the things folks here get all up in arms about, maybe hand-holding and down-from-the-ledge pulling is actually required in some places. LOL! So maybe you have a point.

 

[Weiley31]

I like the new UA Sorcerer so far. Do I still wish we could get the NEXT Playtest Sorcerer revived and back from the dead, even if they took its spell point schtick and applying it as the basis of a whole new class? Yes. But the changes so far are nice.