D&D 5E Sorcerer spell selection

[steeldragons]

Your sense is do as the designers say. They know best. If you had a player who was set on the theme of innate prodigy and wanted to have a spell not on the list because it made sense to them to have that you would say no, and further you would say I bend the rules for no one.

Well, no, I wouldn't. And I'll thank you not to tell me what I would think or do. As I've said, I will, can and have bent rules.

But I do not suffer "special snowflakes." If I bend the rules for YOU, that means I bend the rules for EVERYbody, which includes the DM.

I play a fair game. Not balanced. Not mechanical the same. Fair. It is a thing, rather amorphous, certainly generational and perhaps culture specific, and more than a little subjective.

If you, the player, CHOOSE to be a sorcerer. Then you get the good the bad and the ugly of what a sorcerer is. That is what your character concept needs to work with. You don't have any justification [in D&D] to say I want the good, but not the bad or ugly. Or, but wizards have THIS good/bad/ugly and I why shouldn't I get that too?

There are games where you can "build" characters in such a way, pulling this from here and that from there. Plenty of games do that. D&D, with it's level/class framework, is certainly NOT one of those games where it is well suited.

Are you seeing, at all, the entitlement being portrayed here? I feel like the term gets flung around a lot but those who have it/engage in it really don't SEE it when they're doing it.

If you want to be a sorcerer, and your concept simply can't be done any other way [which is extraordinarily rare, and I'd say in a system like 5e -with subclasses, backgrounds and optionally feats- even more so than previous editions] that will satisfy you without getting this other spell list and I'm looking at at a campaign [or even one session] with Pouty McPisspants because they couldn't have their oh-so-necessary special cookie and eat it too, then sure.

If the concept is just so interesting and cool that you can't imagine playing anything else or it's the kind of character you've wanted for a while but haven't, until now, had a chance to do or whatever. I will bend the rules to permit the character you just have to have.

I will, as the DM, say "Well what about doing it this way...which doesn't require bending rules. And what about this way? And what about the same personality character but of a different class since your concept really is about the character being 'like this' and not really about their adventuring profession at all."

So I will always try to work with my players, to get them what they want. IF all of that falls by the wayside or upon deaf ears [We'll leave the "why" I'd be playing with such a whiny entitled git to some other day.] I will bend things to accommodate you.

Example: You want to be, let's say, a 'White Mage' type from whatever video game that is. You want a sorcerer character, but need to get healing and protective spells instead of what's on the Sorcerer spell list. Here's how that conversation is going to go:

DM: Cool character idea. Why aren't you just being a cleric?

PMP: I don't want to be a cleric. I don't need armor and weapons and I want to be a sorcerer. I don't need channeling.

DM: So, why can't you be a cleric that doesn't use armor and weapons? A mystic healer type who's running around the world on adventures in their pristine white robes? While you certainly have and can use a staff [or mace or whatever], you opt for a magical solution before any other. That's what you want the character to be, right? Isn't channeling really just doing what a sorcerer kinda does with metamagic? Could fluff it like that.

PMP: Yeeeah, but don't want channeling. I want to be a sorcerer. I want the spontaneous casting and spell points and metamagic. I neeeeed that flexibility [a.k.a. I feel a need to be tied to a perceived mechanical advantage].

DM: Ok. Well, how about being a cleric with the sorcerer mechanics for your spell casting?

PMP: But then I need to have a deity and I want to be Chaotic Neutral...

DM: The world has Chaotic Neutral deities...as well as Chaotic Good and True Neutral deities who are happy to take on Chaotic Neutral priests. You'd be unusual or a bit of a misfit, but plausible. Very "How do you solve a problem like Maria?".

PMP: I don't want to be beholden to anyone and, then I can't use the sorcerer spells if I want to swap one out some time later in the game.

DM: Soooo, you want access to choose from the sorcerer and cleric spell lists, freely, all of the metagame mechanical benefits of a sorcerer with none of the in-game restrictions of a cleric?

PMP with a big smile: YES! Exactly. Now you're getting it...and I want a spear.

DM facepalms and has minor stroke: Fine. This conversation has already taken five minutes of my life I'll never get back. Go for it. Interesting concept, cool background. Have a blast. Good luck.

When you run up against a cabal of Sorcerers with shadow magic and necromantic spells who are metamagicking the life right out of you, I don't want to hear a single peep.

 

[Mallus]

I'm going to play my first 5e sorcerer tomorrow night (and first sorcerer since the late, great Eastwood West from a 3e/Dragonstar campaign nearly 10 years ago). I think the spell selection is fine, at least starting out.

Sorcerers are natural magic adepts. They just do magic (without thinking about it too much). Limited spell selection offset by innate abilities/perks and either extra spell slots or on-the-fly metamagic. The class is a primary arcane caster, so there's an obvious and inevitable overlap with wizards, just like in 3e.

Looks good to me. I'll see if I feel the same way in a few months.

 

[steeldragons]

I'm going to play my first 5e sorcerer tomorrow night (and first sorcerer since the late, great Eastwood West from a 3e/Dragonstar campaign nearly 10 years ago). I think the spell selection is fine, at least starting out.

Sorcerers are natural magic adepts. They just do magic (without thinking about it too much). Limited spell selection offset by innate abilities/perks and either extra spell slots or on-the-fly metamagic. The class is a primary arcane caster, so there's an obvious and inevitable overlap with wizards, just like in 3e.

Looks good to me. I'll see if I feel the same way in a few months.

I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts on how it goes.

 

[77IM]

I just looked through the sorc list with an eye towards non-blasty, non-combat-buff spells, and there are plenty, including a lot of really powerful and iconic "magical" stuff like fly, invisibility, polymorph, telekinesis, detect thoughts, clarivoyance, dimension door, and a fairly reasonable selection of illusions and enchantments. So the notion that the spell list is narrow doesn't hold up. Now the NUMBER of spells they get is poor, and may push people towards taking more blasty spells than otherwise, but the options available are fine.

I do wish that there were more bloodlines, and that the bloodlines made more spells available, similar to cleric domains. So a Celestial bloodline might make healing spells part of the list, a Fey bloodline might make some nature-y spells part of the list, an Undead bloodline might add necromancies to the list, etc.

 

[MoonSong]

When you run up against a cabal of Sorcerers with shadow magic and necromantic spells who are metamagicking the life right out of you, I don't want to hear a single peep.

You know, this doesn't sound even remotely broken, just somewhat scary. very few necromancy spells outside the sorcerer list that could do any actual harm that couldn't do it without metamagic. Except for blasting, metamagic is more flavor than power.

And if I wanted to play a white mage I would beg you to remove all weapon and armor proficiencies from my character, all damaging spells from my spell list and allow me to run with a str3 con 6 so I could be not only pacifist, but genuinely bad at causing harm. (and probably propose to get the ability to lend my action to the actual warriors in the party so they don't suffer because I want to play this kind of PC).

 

[fuzzyset]

I'm going to play my first 5e sorcerer tomorrow night (and first sorcerer since the late, great Eastwood West from a 3e/Dragonstar campaign nearly 10 years ago). I think the spell selection is fine, at least starting out.

Sorcerers are natural magic adepts. They just do magic (without thinking about it too much). Limited spell selection offset by innate abilities/perks and either extra spell slots or on-the-fly metamagic. The class is a primary arcane caster, so there's an obvious and inevitable overlap with wizards, just like in 3e.

Looks good to me. I'll see if I feel the same way in a few months.

I'm playing a Sorcerer in the Encounters sessions and enjoying it. I'm having a good time with the Sorcery Points and metamagic. There was a moment in the game last night when a prisoner escaped from our group and went yelling and screaming to warn his friends. We needed to put him down ASAP. After the first spell failed, a Quickened spell was able to put him down and shut him up. Moments like that, where you absolutely need something to happen, make being a sorcerer fun. Plus, I'm still waiting for my first roll on the Wild Magic Surge table. The RP and anticipation are fun for me.