D&D 5E SPIRIT GUARDIANS range clarification

[Hriston]

I rule this affects creatures that could be attacked if the caster had a 15' reach, so a creature three squares away from the caster (two squares diagonally) is considered within range.

I've realized this answer is technically wrong, so I wanted to clarify. The above is how I run it for a medium or small sized caster. However, if the caster is larger, it does not increase the size of the spell's AoE which remains a 30' diameter sphere.

I believe the relevant rule is to be found under "Sphere" under "Areas of Effect" which states "A sphere's point of origin is included in the sphere's area of effect." So if the point of origin is the caster, as indicated by the spell's range of "Self", then the area inhabited by the caster is included in the 15' radius AoE.

 

[Voadam]

Imagine a spell with a 5' radius around a creature.

Sounds good, a spell with a 10 foot diameter area of effect surrounding or emanating from a creature.

Like "A flaming aura surrounds the air within 5' of the creature".

That sounds like something different.

If you cast it on a dragon 20' by 20' dragon, does it cover some 10' diameter sphere? Or does it cover everything within 5' of the dragon?

If it is a 5-foot radius effect it sounds definitionally like something not big enough to be outside and surrounding a 20x20 foot thing.

The second is clearly what it should be, which then makes 15' radius around something also projecting from that thing.

Turning five foot radius into 15 foot radius seems weird. Using a different term than radius, such as within 5 feet of the creature seems the way to go if you don't want to talk about an actual radius but an aura, particularly with the natural language emphasis.

 

[NotAYakk]

Sounds good, a spell with a 10 foot diameter area of effect surrounding or emanating from a creature.

That sounds like something different.

I'm basically quoting spirit guardians, just replacing spirits with flames and 15' with 5'.

"You call forth spirits to protect you. They flit around you to a distance of 15 feet"
vs
"A flaming aura surrounds the air within 5' of the creature".

How is that different?

If it is a 5-foot radius effect it sounds definitionally like something not big enough to be outside and surrounding a 20x20 foot thing.

Turning five foot radius into 15 foot radius seems weird. Using a different term than radius, such as within 5 feet of the creature seems the way to go if you don't want to talk about an actual radius but an aura, particularly with the natural language emphasis.

Spirit Guardians does talk about "within 15 feet of yourself". That is what the spell says.

It also says elsewhere 15' radius (self).

Clearly "within 15 feet" means the same as "15' radius(self)" for spirit guardians, because they are both describing the same thing.

 

[Voadam]

I'm basically quoting spirit guardians, just replacing spirits with flames and 15' with 5'.

"You call forth spirits to protect you. They flit around you to a distance of 15 feet"
vs
"A flaming aura surrounds the air within 5' of the creature".

How is that different?

Its not. I am suggesting that it is different from a similar distance radius effect.

Spirit Guardians does talk about "within 15 feet of yourself". That is what the spell says.

It also says elsewhere 15' radius (self).

Yes I quoted both parts above as well.

Clearly "within 15 feet" means the same as "15' radius(self)" for spirit guardians, because they are both describing the same thing.

Or since the two descriptions are contradictory it clearly indicates that the spell was poorly written and one of the descriptions is a mistake.

 

[Voadam]

WotC can be clear on such things so that the default is not left up to a DM to spend mental energy and time figuring out the options and making a choice on them. 4e for example was much clearer on such things.

4e Player's Handbook page 56:

Close burst [number]: A close burst power allows you to target creatures or objects within the indicated number of squares from you in all directions.

4e Monster Manual page 280:

Aura: An aura is a continuous effect that affects all squares within the listed range of the originating creature’s space. An aura does not affect the originating creature unless the text specifies otherwise.
A creature can drop its aura or reactivate it as a minor action.
A creature usually suffers the effects of an aura at the start of its turn, upon entering the aura, or both, as noted in the aura’s description.
Similar aura effects do not stack unless otherwise noted. For example, a creature that starts its turn in two auras, one that deals 5 cold damage and another that deals 10 cold damage, takes 10 cold damage.
An aura does not affect a creature that cannot be targeted by attacks that require line of effect. For example, a creature encased by the wizard’s ice tomb power is immune to aura effects.

 

[ad_hoc]

That's what I always thought and how I would rule it. Apparently, Mearls or Perkins thinks the flavor text of this spells overrides the rules text for AOEs somehow.

There is no actual definition of 'flavour' versus 'rules' text.

It is all rules text.

M:tag has flavour text. D&D does not.

 

[Voadam]

There is no actual definition of 'flavour' versus 'rules' text.

It is all rules text.

I wouldn't say that because 5e D&D does not define a line between flavour versus rules text that all text in D&D books is rules text. There is a bunch that has nothing to do with game rules.

"In this fiery scene illustrated by Tyler Jacobson, the fire giant King Snurre, suffering no fools to live, calls his hell hounds to join him in confronting unwelcome guests in his home."

"ONCE UPON A TIME, LONG, LONG AGO, IN A realm called the Midwestern United States-specifically the states of Minnesota and Wisconsin-a group of friends gathered together to forever alter the history of gaming."

 

[NaturalZero]

There is no actual definition of 'flavour' versus 'rules' text.

It is all rules text.

M:tag has flavour text. D&D does not.

Spirit guardians describes the spirits as "fliting around you." Please describe to me what the rules for flitting are.

 

[ad_hoc]

I wouldn't say that because 5e D&D does not define a line between flavour versus rules text that all text in D&D books is rules text. There is a bunch that has nothing to do with game rules.

"In this fiery scene illustrated by Tyler Jacobson, the fire giant King Snurre, suffering no fools to live, calls his hell hounds to join him in confronting unwelcome guests in his home."

"ONCE UPON A TIME, LONG, LONG AGO, IN A realm called the Midwestern United States-specifically the states of Minnesota and Wisconsin-a group of friends gathered together to forever alter the history of gaming."

It's a storytelling game.

All the story matters to what happens in the game, it doesn't need to do 1d6 damage to be a rule.

People can try to run it like a board game if they want but then it isn't the games fault when it doesn't work the way they think it should.

 

[Flamestrike]

I've realized this answer is technically wrong, so I wanted to clarify. The above is how I run it for a medium or small sized caster. However, if the caster is larger, it does not increase the size of the spell's AoE which remains a 30' diameter sphere.

I believe the relevant rule is to be found under "Sphere" under "Areas of Effect" which states "A sphere's point of origin is included in the sphere's area of effect." So if the point of origin is the caster, as indicated by the spell's range of "Self", then the area inhabited by the caster is included in the 15' radius AoE.

So when a gargantuan creature casts Globe of invulnerability, the Globe is wholly inside the creature?

Both that spell, and Spirit Guardians expressly state they create a 10' (or 15' for SG) radius 'around you'. To me that implies (in fact it expressly states) that you measure the radius starting at the outer edge of the creature casting it (or in this case, their space for simplicity) and not some nebulous point inside the creature.

If I were to draw a 10' radius around a sports stadium, I'd have a 10' radius around a sports stadium, and not a 10' circle in the middle of the playing field.