D&D 5E SPIRIT GUARDIANS range clarification

[DND_Reborn]

The key word here is 'around'.

FWIW, I agree with you, but in your scenario you never used that word, and frankly it isn't needed.

I mean, you said it right here:

or that you trigger it once you get within 20' of the pillar?

 

[Flamestrike]

FWIW, I agree with you, but in your scenario you never used that word, and frankly it isn't needed.

I mean, you said it right here:

If I say to you 'Draw a line in a 10' radius around your house' and you go and do that, do you:

1) Draw a line radiating out 10' from and around your house, or

2) Draw a 20' diameter circle roughly in the middle of your lounge room?

'Radius' isnt just a term of geometry here; it also refers to any bounded or circumscribed area (check the definition).

A restraining order that prohibits someone from going within 50' of someone's home is not measured from some random point inside that home. It creates a 50' radius around that home, where if you're (at any time) within that 50' and the external boundary of that home, you're in breach of the above order.

 

[NotAYakk]

If you are using a mathemagical definition of radius, then no it is not limited to measuring a circle. Any arc has a radius. For example, take the points within 1 unit of a unit square: this is a rounded rectangle. The quarter-circle components that round the corners are described as having a radius of 1.

If you take the union of every sphere of radius 15' for every point in (self) you also get a set of points which contain every point within 15' of the self.

Regardless, talk to your DM. If you are a DM, please don't use wierd "within 15' means you pick a corner and draw a circle", it is both ugly and a waste of time.

 

[Rya.Reisender]

But, "radius" is not defined as a circle around a point of origin that needs to be on a grid intersection.

The entire grid rules of 5e are completely optional. Claiming that the definition of what spells do is defined by optional rules is sort of backwards.

If your explanation of how a 5e spell works doesn't make sense with no grid whatsoever involved, you are misreading the spell (or the spell has a typo). The optional grid rules are a way to use the gridless 5e rules and put it on a grid.

They are intended to make it quick and easy to interpret the gridless rules when you have a grid. If they fundamentally change how the gridless rules work beyond "lets simplify this", that (again) is a sign you are reading the rules not the way they where intended to be read.

5e is, at its base, gridless. Every time the grid makes the rules change, it should be viewed through a lens of "is this a small change to make things easier to adjudicate or run faster?" Those optional rules shouldn't (say) take a 5' radius fire-aura around a 30' long dragon and suddenly turn it into a 10' diameter bubble.

And you can't help but be referring to the optional grid rules if you are talking about "grid intersections".

Make the spell make sense gridless first, then talk about the grid-based compromises.

If you play without a grid, then the whole thing is not an issue in the first place. I'd simply measure the distance from the caster center to the target center and if it's 15ft or less, it hits. I wouldn't have to care about area of control at all here.

Even easier, I'd just allow my players and also the monsters to just be like "I stay at 16 feet distance and shoot an arrow at it". No need to overcomplicate things when working without grid.

Only applying the optional grid rules creates this problem in the first place.

 

[DND_Reborn]

If I say to you 'Draw a line in a 10' radius around your house' and you go and do that, do you:

1) Draw a line radiating out 10' from and around your house, or

2) Draw a 20' diameter circle roughly in the middle of your lounge room?

'Radius' isnt just a term of geometry here; it also refers to any bounded or circumscribed area (check the definition).

A restraining order that prohibits someone from going within 50' of someone's home is not measured from some random point inside that home. It creates a 50' radius around that home, where if you're (at any time) within that 50' and the external boundary of that home, you're in breach of the above order.

Wow... you REALLY just don't get it, do you? Why are you still debating this with me?

Radius is a geometry term. Period. If they don't mean that, (WHICH I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THEY DON'T, OK?????? Got that?), they should use a different term and then we wouldn't be discussing it. Would we?

"Zone", for example, would be a better term. A "zone" is an area, and can be "around" something or someone.

 

[Flamestrike]

Radius is a geometry term. Period.

Not exclusively, no it's not.

Definition of RADIUS

 

[DND_Reborn]

Not exclusively, no it's not.

Definition of RADIUS

So, you want to use the "bone definition"? How will that help your argument...

(Which I don't understand why you are even arguing...)

 

[billd91]

Wow... you REALLY just don't get it, do you? Why are you still debating this with me?

Radius is a geometry term. Period. If they don't mean that, (WHICH I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THEY DON'T, OK?????? Got that?), they should use a different term and then we wouldn't be discussing it. Would we?

"Zone", for example, would be a better term. A "zone" is an area, and can be "around" something or someone.

Radius is also used outside of strict mathematics to indicate an area around a site that isn’t necessarily a single point in geometric space. You’ll find plenty of places advertising that they deliver goods in an x mile radius of their store or the mall they’re in.
WotC’s uses of point and radius for spirit guardians are perfectly reasonable as natural language. And if you‘re using a grid for your games, it’s perfectly reasonable to administer it as a 3 square radius around any square, whether 1 x 1, 2 x 2, or anything else, even if that means a larger spell effect area than 15 foot radius around a single point.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Radius is also used outside of strict mathematics to indicate an area around a site that isn’t necessarily a single point in geometric space. You’ll find plenty of places advertising that they deliver goods in an x mile radius of their store or the mall they’re in.

It's still mathematics and geometry...

The word "radius" in these contexts is superfluous and just causes confusion because people think of the radius as located at the center of the location, creature, whatever.

 

[Voadam]

@Voadam

Imagine you're reading the following text of an adventure:

This 300' wide circular room contains a 30' radius (60' diameter) circular pillar in the middle of the room, that extends all the way to the roof. Magical energy crackles from the pillar. There are no other exits from this room.

The pillar is trapped, and any creature that enters within a 20' radius of the pillar is dealt (20d6 force damage, Dex save DC 15 for half).

Is it your position that to trigger the above trap, one would need to tunnel inside the pillar at least 10 feet, or that you trigger it once you get within 20' of the pillar?

It is my position that the trap is described poorly and misusing the word radius.

A description of a spell could be written to say that magical torches show up at the corners of a circular area of effect, that does not mean it makes sense as written.