D&D 5E Spiritual Weapon and Sneak Attack

[TrueBagelMan]

I know RAW this isn’t viable, but would anything break balance if you could sneak attack with a spiritual weapon? If not why would this break something? I can only see the problem if an Arcane Trickster now could do Two-Weapon Fighting and cast spells since the weapon is a floating so you have a free hand. Maybe if your getting the spell through cleric then shield could also be a problem.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

In a lot of situations I have allowed certain spells to benefit from sneak attack. I don't think it breaks anything, especially if you maintain the rule of one sneak attack per turn.

 

[auburn2]

It is more unbalancing when a cleric or other spellcaster dips rogue to get SA with his spiritual weapon. In that case he is getting hit rolls and damage according to the spell ability (which is presumably high) and getting SA on top of that when he/she would hit less often with a dex or strength attack. Additionally a character has a host of spells he could cast with his action.

For a rogue with 3 levels in cleric it is not unbalanced because the rogue could do about the same with a standard attack. To compare to 2-weapon fighting the difference is probably about 3-4dpr if both hit (comparing 2 short swords+dex vs spiritual weapon+rapier+dex+wis), but you have a marginally smaller chance to land SA since the spellcasting ability is presumably less than dex and you are losing at least 1d6 SA to access 2nd level spells.

The real imbalance comes from being able to sneak attack and take an action other than attack, so I would probably houserule this and say he can only get SA with his spiritual weapon if he takes the attack action (to include grapple or shove).

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I wouldn't allow this but, if I did, the spell attacking and delivering the sneak attack would use up the rogues sneak attack for the round. Spiritual Weapon is not a 'separate' character that can flank and take up a space and do all sorts of things. It's a spell.

Also, if you allow spiritual weapon - a spell attack - to do sneak attack damage, you would have to allow other spell attacks to do the same and that seems like a slippery slope.

 

[Seramus]

I wouldn't mind it. Magic Stone with a sling is already a precedent, and slots will be quite limited unless the character takes more than 3 levels of cleric.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

It is more unbalancing when a cleric or other spellcaster dips rogue to get SA with his spiritual weapon. In that case he is getting hit rolls and damage according to the spell ability (which is presumably high) and getting SA on top of that when he/she would hit less often with a dex or strength attack. Additionally a character has a host of spells he could cast with his action.

Eh, I don't know. A straight rogue gets to use their primary stat with sneak attack. If a cleric dips rogue, they are already giving up their normal spell progression. I mean a straight rogue with the Magic Initiate feat can use sneak attack with Booming Blade or Green-Flame blade, and if they get access to Shadow Blade they can apply sneak attack. A cleric is already sacrificing stuff for access to rogue abilities, I don't see any reason to punish them for it.

The real imbalance comes from being able to sneak attack and take an action other than attack, so I would probably houserule this and say he can only get SA with his spiritual weapon if he takes the attack action (to include grapple or shove).

Not sure about this either. A straight cleric can already cast cantrips or spells in conjunction with Spiritual Weapon (especially after the initial attacking).

Sure, a rogue generally has to use their main action to attack, limiting what else they can do outside of attack. But the Rogue also has their own built in abilities to do address this, particularly with Cunning Action.

Of course, YMMV, and this is just how I see things. Different tables may see things differently.

 

[aco175]

Would there be anything with attacking and being hidden? Seems like somehow unfair, but also almost the same as shooting an arrow and then hiding again. I guess it should not be a problem. There may be a drop-off in d6s if the thief is multiclassed with cleric to help balance out.

 

[Eltab]

I would rule that you cannot Sneak Attack with Spiritual Weapon because the weapon that appears is not something you wield in your hand.

But for those who want to allow it, my Trickery Cleric6 / Arcane Trickster4 would like to receive his Sneak Attack benefits with Spirit Guardians (the big hazy cloud of enemy-tormenting) if you don't mind, Mr. DM, sir.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Would there be anything with attacking and being hidden? Seems like somehow unfair, but also almost the same as shooting an arrow and then hiding again. I guess it should not be a problem. There may be a drop-off in d6s if the thief is multiclassed with cleric to help balance out.

I think that that the weapon itself would have to be hidden for this you count, not just the Cleric.
Since this is unlikely, the weapon would probably have to qualify for sneak attack in some other way.
Note that whatever form the weapon takes, it does not have the Finesse property.

 

[auburn2]

Eh, I don't know. A straight rogue gets to use their primary stat with sneak attack. If a cleric dips rogue, they are already giving up their normal spell progression. I mean a straight rogue with the Magic Initiate feat can use sneak attack with Booming Blade or Green-Flame blade, and if they get access to Shadow Blade they can apply sneak attack. A cleric is already sacrificing stuff for access to rogue abilities, I don't see any reason to punish them for it.



Not sure about this either. A straight cleric can already cast cantrips or spells in conjunction with Spiritual Weapon (especially after the initial attacking).

I don't think it punishes them. They can still cast spiritual weapon and can upcast it for extra damage as well if they are high enough level.

The cleric can cast cantrips or spells with spiritual weapon but that is a normal spiritual weapon, not a sneak attack spiritual weapon. I don't think it is unbalanced for the rogue-cleric to cast spells or cantrips while using his spiritual weapon, I think it is unbalanced if he does than AND gets to sneak attack as well. The only character that can sneak attack and cast a full on 1-action spell or cantrip the same turn is a fighter-rogue who uses action surge or a sorecer-rogue who uses metamagic and those are both limited per LR/SR.