[SPOILERS] Star Wars Episode 3 - He's back!

[John Crichton]

Okay, I have long since lost the interview (from a magazine or TV, I forget which). This was before the internet was around. But this link sums things up fairly well. It is by no means official but I'm not pulling this stuff out of my butt. I am too anal-retentive about all things Star Wars for that.

Believe me or not I even have an official net link that can back me up:

http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/steve/askjc20010817.html

All it means is that just the movies are considered official canon. You can see it how you like, tho. That is the beauty of Star Wars. There is so much out there to draw from. However, only a few sources (the movies and anything attached to them like books and screenplay adaptations) are canon.

 

[satori01]

An always contentious subject. Frankly in many communities (TFN ) it is even debated wether the novelizations are cannon.
Frankly I stick strictly to the films.

George Lucas has said in other interviews that he considers the EU to be an alternate Star Wars universe, seperate from his own.
George doesnt call it wrong or misguided, but he distinctly feels it is seperate from the movies.

An intresting aspect of the cannon questions is comments by George Lucas cannon or not, when they contradict the movies.
On the AOTC commentary track George explicitly states the Darkside of the force is stronger than the "lightside", meaning either Lucas or Yoda is lying... frankly I think George has his head up his A$$

 

[Ranger REG]

George Lucas has said in other interviews that he considers the EU to be an alternate Star Wars universe, seperate from his own.
George doesnt call it wrong or misguided, but he distinctly feels it is seperate from the movies.

An intresting aspect of the cannon questions is comments by George Lucas cannon or not, when they contradict the movies.
On the AOTC commentary track George explicitly states the Darkside of the force is stronger than the "lightside", meaning either Lucas or Yoda is lying... frankly I think George has his head up his A$$

Again, what a ....!

Great, I just wasted $7 on the first book of NJO series, now non-canon. Yes, I was about to read it and catch up as I've heard some good things about it for some time, but I made it my own personal policy to ignore non-canon stuff, just as I've done with Star Trek printed media (with the exception of technical manuals and nerd-friendly material).

 

[Alzrius]

http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/steve/askjc20010817.html

Ah, this is that page I was talking about!

All it means is that just the movies are considered official canon.

"official canon" is redundant. That said, I'm slightly confused by your statement there. You say that, but then you say:

However, only a few sources (the movies and anything attached to them like books and screenplay adaptations) are canon.

Despite the fact that that link you posted mentions this explicitly:

When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves - and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences. The novelizations are written concurrently with the film's production, so variations in detail do creep in from time to time.

That makes it quite clear that even screenplay adaptions and such are, themselves, non-canon, in the strictest possible sense.

That said, the answer on that link then switches from talking about "canon" to "continuity" and says that all the novels and comics are part of the continuity, as judged by LucasBooks (who, IIRC, review all the material and such to make sure it fits). So really, we end up having our cake and eating it too.

 

[John Crichton]

That makes it quite clear that even screenplay adaptions and such are, themselves, non-canon, in the strictest possible sense.

Not really. In the strictest sense, the movies are canon followed by the screenplays and novels of the films. Any inconsistancies are trumped by the films themselves.

That said, the answer on that link then switches from talking about "canon" to "continuity" and says that all the novels and comics are part of the continuity, as judged by LucasBooks (who, IIRC, review all the material and such to make sure it fits). So really, we end up having our cake and eating it too.

If we are just considering canon, then anything that is not part of the films is not canon. Sure, the comics and some of the novels have continuity. But that does not make them canon which was my original point and I hold to that.

However, that does not stop any individual from enjoying and using anything non-canon from any of the novels or comics. It's just not canon. Simple as that. I have no issues with folks running games or conversations about the extended universe or otherwise. It's just not canon any therefore is conjecture in any Star Wars mythos if not talking about the films themselves.

As for my post having a few inconsistancies: I apologize for using redundant and confusing language as it directly contradicts what my point was. I hope I have cleared things up.

 

[Alzrius]

Not really. In the strictest sense, the movies are canon followed by the screenplays and novels of the films.

Ah, "followed by". There's the rub. You seem to be saying that the screenplays and novels are "less canon" than the films. It doesn't work that way. You either have something be canon, or not be. There are no shades. That said, that article you linked to makes it abundantly clear, as I quoted, that novelizations of the films and screenplays are non-canon.

Assuming there were "levels" of canonity, then you couldn't rule the comics and EU novels out either, which is what you say. They'd just be slightly less canon than the screenplays.

Any inconsistancies are trumped by the films themselves.

They don't need to be trumped because they aren't canon at all. Like I said above: there are two ways to be "canon" or "non-canon" with no shades of grey. This is called (and I'm completely making this term up for ease of reference) "black and white" canonity.

If we are just considering canon, then anything that is not part of the films is not canon. Sure, the comics and some of the novels have continuity. But that does not make them canon which was my original point and I hold to that.

Correction: if we are just considering canon, then only the films are canon. Not even novelizations of them are. That's what starwars.com itself said.

However, that does not stop any individual from enjoying and using anything non-canon from any of the novels or comics. It's just not canon. Simple as that. I have no issues with folks running games or conversations about the extended universe or otherwise. It's just not canon and therefore is conjecture in any Star Wars mythos if not talking about the films themselves.

In terms of not talking about the films themselves and such, the screenplays also fall into this distinction, as they are not the films; they are an author writing about the films.

As I noted, if we do accept that the screenplays "follow" the movies, in terms of canonity, then you must also hold that they in turn are "followed" by the other novels and comics, which then makes them canon - just less so. To make up another term, this is "shades of grey" canonity.

As for my post having a few inconsistancies: I apologize for using redundant and confusing language as it directly contradicts what my point was. I hope I have cleared things up.

I'm just glad you didn't spell "canon" with two n's. I hope my post here is enlightening.

 

[Enforcer]

I'm just glad you didn't spell "canon" with two n's.

Here here!

 

[John Crichton]

Ah, "followed by". There's the rub. You seem to be saying that the screenplays and novels are "less canon" than the films. It doesn't work that way. You either have something be canon, or not be. There are no shades. That said, that article you linked to makes it abundantly clear, as I quoted, that novelizations of the films and screenplays are non-canon.

That article doesn't exactly portray what my original point was (doh). Basically, what I have have known for years is that the films, radio dramas, novels and screenplays are all canon. However, if there are any points of contention then refer to the films for clarification. They trump all the others. However, all this info was before the new trilogy started. Lucas himself actually wrote "A New Hope" and had the other 2 original trilogy screenplays adapted into novels by other authors (Donal Glut & James Kahn). At that time he had said that those additional works were canon (again, no web link because there was no internet at that time).

Assuming there were "levels" of canonity, then you couldn't rule the comics and EU novels out either, which is what you say. They'd just be slightly less canon than the screenplays.

There aren't really levels of canon, as mentioned. It either is or isn't. If the movie says one thing and the novel says another, the movie is correct.

They don't need to be trumped because they aren't canon at all. Like I said above: there are two ways to be "canon" or "non-canon" with no shades of grey. This is called (and I'm completely making this term up for ease of reference) "black and white" canonity.

Not true as to my original reasoning. However, I will concede that the link I provided does not jive. Hence, the individual can decide what he or she wishes to take from the additional movies sources and those only. Not from additional novels, comics, etc. Those are clearly marked as non-canon.

Correction: if we are just considering canon, then only the films are canon. Not even novelizations of them are. That's what starwars.com itself said.

I cannot contest this and I cannot provide a weblink to the contrary.

In terms of not talking about the films themselves and such, the screenplays also fall into this distinction, as they are not the films; they are an author writing about the films.

The only exception being Lucas' own adaption of "A New Hope." This is implied rather than stated. The link doesn't verify this, of course and it is simply my own interpretation. Take it is as you will. Ah, the internet....

As I noted, if we do accept that the screenplays "follow" the movies, in terms of canonity, then you must also hold that they in turn are "followed" by the other novels and comics, which then makes them canon - just less so. To make up another term, this is "shades of grey" canonity.

The site specifically states what is canon and what is not. If it is not the movie, it is not canon. I am willing to concede that the other film sources such as screenplays and radio dramas, etc. are not canon. However, I do not consider any of the non-film adapted novels canon what-so-ever. I did like the additions in most of the movie adaptation novels (especially Episode 1's) but, alas, they are not part of Star Wars canon.

I'm just glad you didn't spell "canon" with two n's. I hope my post here is enlightening.

I have made that mistake before.

Basically, if we go from the starwars.com link, then only the films are canon, which was my point from the start (the novels & screenplays were an afterthought). That works for me as it makes things perfectly clear as far as canon goes. All the non-film novels are easy to remove from canon as they are obviously not authorized to be so.

I guess that for a while, the novels were used a clarification source for the movies (at least in my little world), rather than actual canon. I am living mostly in the late 80's at this point of the discussion. There were a few other Star Wars books released before Timothy Zahn's excellent "Heir to the Empire" but they were not so widely received. Since then, there have been countless additions to the Star Wars universe.

I have obviously been tainted by previous knowledge that I cannot prove at this time because the information does not appear on the net or I cannot find it. As for my original post concerning the novels, I may be in error. However, the spirit and gist was that basically the movies are the true source of Star Wars canon. All else is just basically well-selling and professional fan-fiction. Kinda odd when you think of it...

And to keep this on topic: Chewie is NOT dead. Not in my mind or ever. And he will live on, cameo-style in Episode 3.

 

[Storminator]

Hey! Which movies are canon? Did Greedo shoot first or not?

PS

 

[Michael Tree]

Hey! Which movies are canon? Did Greedo shoot first or not?

Of course not, what movies did you see?

Are you referring to the "Special Editions"? Sorry, they never existed. They're just a myth, like the unexpurgated version of the novel of The Princess Bride, and the Star Wars Holiday Special.