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Star Wars: reboot/remake?

Zardnaar

Legend

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The first movie was in 1977. This means in 2027 will be the 50th anniversary, and after it's enough time to allow themself a reboot.

We have other option: The prophets and seers who can see the future are canon in SW. This means someones could see different futures, and then Disney could publish a new serie about these "prophets' files" where a group of arcaheologists search a old holocron with the files of these prophets. These files were created by the cooperation of the prophets seing the different possible futures, and telepath reading the mind and sending those mental images to a "holo-scribe", other force-adept with telekinetic powers being used with holograpic technology to "record" those prophecies as 3D movies. This trick would allow to be canon but alter the canon and almost nobody would be angry. An example of alternate timeline would be the galaxy for the age of the Rakata infinity empire being conquered by the yuuzan vong.

* SW is a fabulous franchise, but after the batle of Yavin (the first Deathstar is destroyed) almost all the main events in the galaxy are linked to Skywalker family and company. And jedi may have got too much prominence.

I think it's because of the novel Heir to the Empire in the old EU.

Star Wars was basically dead and it started the revival in the 90s. Everything since owes it's existence to that novel.

It was the sequel to RotJ. It it remained that way for 23 years.

Even now almost 30 years later they've added elements of it back into the new canon.

For example Thrawn. He's a fan favorite shrugs.
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
In all seriousness, why are you so opposed to this? I didn't think this was a common enough thing to need to be specifically excluded.

Putting on my Old Man Hat: Back in my day we called this the Raccoon King.
It’s a common trope amongst EU fans, to the point where many of them consider it to simply be the truth of the Star Wars galaxy that Grey Jedi are a thing.

I’m opposed to it because it changes, detrimentally, the nature of the Force and of the story being told in Star Wars.
 

Ryujin

Adventurer
In all seriousness, why are you so opposed to this? I didn't think this was a common enough thing to need to be specifically excluded.

Putting on my Old Man Hat: Back in my day we called this the Raccoon King.

Just go Grey Lensmen and be done, says I.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
It’s a common trope amongst EU fans, to the point where many of them consider it to simply be the truth of the Star Wars galaxy that Grey Jedi are a thing.

I’m opposed to it because it changes, detrimentally, the nature of the Force and of the story being told in Star Wars.

Lucas himself may not have used the term but conceptually he used them.

Dooku leaving the order and the Clone Wars cartoon.

And millions played things like Knights of the Old Republic and Jedi Academy games so casuals bought into it as well even if they're oblivious to the rest of the EU.

Those games still have active communities,mod support and YouTube channels.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Lucas himself may not have used the term but conceptually he used them.

Dooku leaving the order and the Clone Wars cartoon.

And millions played things like Knights of the Old Republic and Jedi Academy games so casuals bought into it as well even if they're oblivious to the rest of the EU.

Those games still have active communities,mod support and YouTube channels.
Dooku was never grey, and thankfully KOTOR isn't canon.

There is The Force, and there is the danger of falling to the Dark Side. That's it. Once you've fallen, you might be redeemed, but there isn't a balance between the two. The Force is balanced in the "Light Side", which is in quotations because there is no such thing. The "Light Side" is just the Force, uncorrupted and balanced.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Dooku was never grey, and thankfully KOTOR isn't canon.

There is The Force, and there is the danger of falling to the Dark Side. That's it. Once you've fallen, you might be redeemed, but there isn't a balance between the two. The Force is balanced in the "Light Side", which is in quotations because there is no such thing. The "Light Side" is just the Force, uncorrupted and balanced.

Doesn't matter if it's not canon. Millions played it.
Grey Jedi doesn't mean one who uses both sides can also mean one whose left the order

Dooku conceptually was a grey Jedi between leaving the order and joining the Sith.

Ahsoka is also one using that logic. She might also be one official they may have added the term to the new canon I'm not 100% sure in that one.

They also busted out force Lightning, generally seen as a dark side ability.
 

Ryujin

Adventurer
Dooku was never grey, and thankfully KOTOR isn't canon.

There is The Force, and there is the danger of falling to the Dark Side. That's it. Once you've fallen, you might be redeemed, but there isn't a balance between the two. The Force is balanced in the "Light Side", which is in quotations because there is no such thing. The "Light Side" is just the Force, uncorrupted and balanced.

And, in the fashion of the films that inspired Lucas, redemption always seems to come at the ultimate price.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Doesn't matter if it's not canon. Millions played it.
Grey Jedi doesn't mean one who uses both sides can also mean one whose left the order

Dooku conceptually was a grey Jedi between leaving the order and joining the Sith.

Ahsoka is also one using that logic. She might also be one official they may have added the term to the new canon I'm not 100% sure in that one.

They also busted out force Lightning, generally seen as a dark side ability.
You are the only person I've ever seen using grey jedi to mean someone who has left the order.

A grey jedi is, every time the term has actually been used in official material, someone whose "alignment" is in between light and dark.

In canon, thankfully, this is not a thing.

And, in the fashion of the films that inspired Lucas, redemption always seems to come at the ultimate price.
Yep, because those who fall to the dark side are evil, not just on the wrong side of a spectrum.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
You are the only person I've ever seen using grey jedi to mean someone who has left the order.

A grey jedi is, every time the term has actually been used in official material, someone whose "alignment" is in between light and dark.

In canon, thankfully, this is not a thing.


Yep, because those who fall to the dark side are evil, not just on the wrong side of a spectrum.

Might wanna read the wiki entry on Grey Jedi.

Onscreen both Luke and Rey used dark side type powers (force choke/lightning).

Term might not get used conceptually both definitions have been seen onscreen in the movies and cartoons.

It's just a term so you generally know what someone's talking about. Dark Jedi isn't official either but if someone uses it to refer to Ventress who his a dark Sider using a lightsaber you know what they're talking about.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Might wanna read the wiki entry on Grey Jedi.

Onscreen both Luke and Rey used dark side type powers (force choke/lightning).

That doesn't mean that they were "neutral", which is essentially what "Grey Jedi" are supposed to be.

Luke and Rey, on screen, are both still of the Light Side. They may use a power once or twice, but don't fall outright. In current canon, there's Dark, and there's Light. Nobody lingers in between. The Force is a step function, and there is no saddle point to rest in the middle.

I can understand the pushback on Grey Jedi. They are, in effect, trying to have their cake and eat it too - all the powers, but none of the drawbacks.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
That doesn't mean that they were "neutral", which is essentially what "Grey Jedi" are supposed to be.

Luke and Rey, on screen, are both still of the Light Side. They may use a power once or twice, but don't fall outright. In current canon, there's Dark, and there's Light. Nobody lingers in between. The Force is a step function, and there is no saddle point to rest in the middle.

I can understand the pushback on Grey Jedi. They are, in effect, trying to have their cake and eat it too - all the powers, but none of the drawbacks.

I like grey Jedi conceptually but it's the equivalent of playing with fire.

I'm fine with it in terms of Jedi who have left the order.

They did use the concept to tell some good stories including force traditions/beliefs where the idea was to lure people to the dark side.

Not sure if the term dark Jedi is kosher anymore but it's clear enough for a Jedi that's fallen to the dark side.

If you use the term for someone who uses both the light and dark side you're either transitioning to the dark side or had better wake up and stop doing what you're doing.

Ahsoka is an ex Jedi but she hasn't fallen to the dark side. So in that regard grey Jedi are fine IMHO.

Palps wasn't exactly subtle (give into your anger, strike me down). But yeah more than one way to lure someone to the dark side.
 

I can understand the pushback on Grey Jedi. They are, in effect, trying to have their cake and eat it too - all the powers, but none of the drawbacks.

In older EU works, tapping into the Dark would limit your access to Light, and vice versa. So being "Gray" meant that you could never proceed to full power of either side. If more modern stuff gives them full access to both, then, yeah, that's just total cheese.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
That doesn't mean that they were "neutral", which is essentially what "Grey Jedi" are supposed to be.

Luke and Rey, on screen, are both still of the Light Side. They may use a power once or twice, but don't fall outright. In current canon, there's Dark, and there's Light. Nobody lingers in between. The Force is a step function, and there is no saddle point to rest in the middle.

I can understand the pushback on Grey Jedi. They are, in effect, trying to have their cake and eat it too - all the powers, but none of the drawbacks.
Yep. The biggest problem with Grey Jedi is the idea that one can sit in the center and not be pulled into the Dark. That is the opposite of the story being told in the movies.

Every time in canon material that someone claims to be neither light nor dark, the end up either lying about not being darkside, or they fall to the darkside.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Yep. The biggest problem with Grey Jedi is the idea that one can sit in the center and not be pulled into the Dark. That is the opposite of the story being told in the movies.

Every time in canon material that someone claims to be neither light nor dark, the end up either lying about not being darkside, or they fall to the darkside.

Generally it's the way it went in the old EU as well with a few exceptions.

Those exceptions were special circumstances, one off type deals where you paid the ultimate price, or teetering on falling to the dark side.

Certain force beliefs and traditions were a maybe as well but it wasn't clear in most cases if they were correct.

Jedi and Sith generally couldn't teleport but other users had figured it out but they were also aliens.

Jacen (hands kid) channeled a huge amount of the force both light and dark and just about died.

He fell to the dark side later with the intention of being a good Sith. Ended about as well as you expect.

They had been dropping hints for a while and it was a very slow turn. When he made the final decision it had been obvious for a while.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Generally it's the way it went in the old EU as well with a few exceptions.

Those exceptions were special circumstances, one off type deals where you paid the ultimate price, or teetering on falling to the dark side.

Certain force beliefs and traditions were a maybe as well but it wasn't clear in most cases if they were correct.

Jedi and Sith generally couldn't teleport but other users had figured it out but they were also aliens.

Jacen (hands kid) channeled a huge amount of the force both light and dark and just about died.

He fell to the dark side later with the intention of being a good Sith. Ended about as well as you expect.

They had been dropping hints for a while and it was a very slow turn. When he made the final decision it had been obvious for a while.
Respectfully, while I’ve read a decent amount of the EU books and played most of the games, I don’t really care about it in terms of Star Wars canon, and only ever did in the context of having a friend who had co tributes some bits to the canon over the years.
 

Mustrum_Ridcully

Adventurer
I can understand the pushback on Grey Jedi. They are, in effect, trying to have their cake and eat it too - all the powers, but none of the drawbacks.
I think that's it. If you can have all of the cool powers but don't need to adhere to any weird (or terrible) moral or ethical rules to do so, being a Jedi or falling to the Dark Side is dumb.
Just do the gray thing and you're fine!
The only way "Gray" Jedi or Force users seem to work is if they still come with some serious drawbacks en par of the Dark Side or the Jedi Order rules.

I think mostly the EU did it that way. There were alternate force traditions that had some other weird rules that limited them, or they just were more dabblers than msters. The ones that tried to be inside the Jedi/Sith traditions and still be gray typically ended up falling to the dark side.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I think that's it. If you can have all of the cool powers but don't need to adhere to any weird (or terrible) moral or ethical rules to do so, being a Jedi or falling to the Dark Side is dumb.
Just do the gray thing and you're fine!
The only way "Gray" Jedi or Force users seem to work is if they still come with some serious drawbacks en par of the Dark Side or the Jedi Order rules.

I think mostly the EU did it that way. There were alternate force traditions that had some other weird rules that limited them, or they just were more dabblers than msters. The ones that tried to be inside the Jedi/Sith traditions and still be gray typically ended up falling to the dark side.

Even in the old EU the gray traditions generally fell to the dark side or had to ditch the dark side elements.

They had a couple of main theories about the force and the few actual grey force users were usually special one off type event. They couldn't draw on the dark side regularly.

Towards the end of it Luke was Uber powerful but took a hands off approach because of the dark side.

The grey Jedi type teachings were generally seen as temptation to start in the path of the dark side. Just more subtle.

Luke let his Jedi have families though.
 



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