Star Wars Saga Edition [SECR] Preview #2 is Up

[ValhallaGH]

Finally, I'm of the opinion they should have dropped Trained-only uses for skills. We already have a mechanic that simulates those things that only someone who's specially trained in the skill can do... higher DC.

There's a problem with that.

There are lots of things in the world (and in The Galaxy) that any jackass can do as long as said jackass has the necessary training. They are simple if the character has been trained how to do them. If the character doesn't know how then these things are nearly impossible.

By setting the DCs for such uses very high then suddenly a character has to be an experienced trained jackass to do them, and anyone else that is really experienced has a solid chance at also doing these things that are supposed to only be doable by those with training.

 

[Jer]

Take the DC 40 example. A character with a skill bonus of +22 ...

Not directly related, but this example made me think of something. One of the side effects of this new system is that the DCs can be somewhat compressed. In the current system, a level 1 character can have at most a +13 bonus to a skill (4 ranks, +4 ability bonus, +3 Skill Focus, +2 "Two Skill" Feat bonus). In the new system, the level 1 character can have at most a +14 bonus (+4 ability bonus, +5 Skill Focus, +5 Trained) - roughly the same. At level 10 that character in the old system could have at least a +21 bonus to a skill (ignoring synergy bonuses and ability score increases) - in the new system that level 10 character would max out with a +19 bonus (given the claim that these are the ONLY two skill bonuses allowed by the system) . At level 20 you could have more than a +32 bonus in the current system - the new system will only give you a +24 bonus.

Interesting - I wonder if they'll change the DC chart because of this - and I also wonder how easy its going to be to do NPC conversions from the current system to the new one. I like the idea of scaling back the range on skills, and these simplifications appeal to me a lot. I'm hoping that they DO get rid of the idea of class/cross-class skills as well and instead give you Talents in a class that synergize well with certain skills for certain classes.

 

[iwatt]

Interesting - I wonder if they'll change the DC chart because of this - and I also wonder how easy its going to be to do NPC conversions from the current system to the new one. I like the idea of scaling back the range on skills, and these simplifications appeal to me a lot. I'm hoping that they DO get rid of the idea of class/cross-class skills as well and instead give you Talents in a class that synergize well with certain skills for certain classes.

I don't think DCs will get moved much. Apparently between levels 1-10 the two system are very similar range wise. And IME at Level 10 you have all the ranks you need to achieve necessary static DCs. The only reson to increase ranks much higher is for skills that depend on the opposed check mechanic, and that will work just as well in both systems.

I really like the untrained rules, since I love running chase scenes, and now everybody can participate.

 

[Av3rnus]

I'm really curious as to how 'trained' skills are going to be allocated - will it differ between classes? It seems to me that if they want to keep it differentiate by class (e.g. scoundrel gets X number of trained skills while soldier gets Y number of trained skills), then this would generate problems with multiclassing. Alternatively, they might just get ride of multiclassing.

My guess is that they'll probably separate trained skill selection from class selection - say, a flat number of trained skills, maybe modified by Int, and the more skills oriented classes simply pick up an extra trained skill every few levels (to keep things from getting front-loaded). Has anybody else been kicking around ideas on how this might work?

/delurks

 

[delericho]

There are lots of things in the world (and in The Galaxy) that any jackass can do as long as said jackass has the necessary training. They are simple if the character has been trained how to do them. If the character doesn't know how then these things are nearly impossible.

Such as? Seriously, I've been trying to come up with a counter example since I posted previously, and I'm not seeing one. In every case I've come up with, the 'high DC' model fits at least as well as the 'special training' model.

Also, it's worth noting that the current 'Trained only' model doesn't say it's nearly impossible to perform one of these tasks - it says it is impossible. So, if I lock my keys in my car, it is physically impossible for me to get the door open without smashing the window. It is impossible to calm an angry dog without special training. It is impossible to take a computer to bits and reassemble it without special know-how.

Something really doesn't fit there.

 

[Sir Brennen]

My guess is that they'll probably separate trained skill selection from class selection - say, a flat number of trained skills, maybe modified by Int, and the more skills oriented classes simply pick up an extra trained skill every few levels (to keep things from getting front-loaded). Has anybody else been kicking around ideas on how this might work?

I'm thinking something similar: Start off with X number of trained skills, where X might vary by class, select another skill to be trained at every Y levels, maybe a feat to become trained in a skill, and Skill Monkeys having a talent tree which also allows them to select more skills as "Trained".

PrCs will probably have "Skill X: Trained" as prereqs now, instead of "Y ranks in Skill X", which will make planning ahead for them easier as well.

Welcome to the party, Av3rnus

 

[JohnSnow]

There are lots of things in the world (and in The Galaxy) that any jackass can do as long as said jackass has the necessary training. They are simple if the character has been trained how to do them. If the character doesn't know how then these things are nearly impossible.

Such as? Seriously, I've been trying to come up with a counter example since I posted previously, and I'm not seeing one. In every case I've come up with, the 'high DC' model fits at least as well as the 'special training' model.

Fiber-optic splicing.

You can learn to do it with 6 hours of training. It's easy. Simple. Straight-forward, and always follows the same rules.

If you haven't had training, fiber optics are an arcane jumble of spaghetti.

There's other examples, but pretty much any skill you could learn in one day (or one week) probably counts.

 

[variant]

I am personally liking SW Saga ruleset, I can't wait to get my hands on it.

 

[jezter6]

Fiber-optic splicing.

You can learn to do it with 6 hours of training. It's easy. Simple. Straight-forward, and always follows the same rules.

If you haven't had training, fiber optics are an arcane jumble of spaghetti.

There's other examples, but pretty much any skill you could learn in one day (or one week) probably counts.

Sure. Point taken. However, at what point does that REALLY come up in game? If skill checks for fiber optic splicing are a regular thing, I'd probably rather go watch teletubbies for an hour.

We're talking about actual in game uses, not 'well, what if...' scenarios. The rule doesn't fit for fiber optic splicing, but I'll be damned if I'm going to call for a roll for that. Rules will never fit 100% of the situations, but common sense should help us in the 10% where it doesn't.

 

[JohnSnow]

We're talking about actual in game uses, not 'well, what if...' scenarios.

First, the request was for "an example."

You want a different, more adventure appropriate one?

- Disarming a bomb