D&D 5E That’s a lot of charcoal! Find Familiar problem

[Sunseeker]

Also remember that it is 10gp worth of charcoal, with no exchange rate specified. You can just go to a shop and insist on buying tiny pieces of charcoal for 10gp each.

This is why magic spell components should always be measured by size or weight, since value is relative.

 

[Ovinomancer]

This is why magic spell components should always be measured by size or weight, since value is relative.

I disagree, largely because i, as a DM, do not want to create an economy that resolves in detail at this level. Instead, I want to tax players of a resource, and one of the resources is wealth. So, 10gp of materials for spell components is at a level of resolution and against a resource I can manage. How much charcoal is 10gp worth of charcoal? One casting of find familiar. End of need to care.

 

[Sunseeker]

I disagree, largely because i, as a DM, do not want to create an economy that resolves in detail at this level. Instead, I want to tax players of a resource, and one of the resources is wealth. So, 10gp of materials for spell components is at a level of resolution and against a resource I can manage. How much charcoal is 10gp worth of charcoal? One casting of find familiar. End of need to care.

You wouldn't have to. Base prices for materials could still be provided in the book. If you don't care how much coal costs, just go with how much the book says it costs. But "10gp of materials" is a poor measurement system. Why not just switch to a gold-to-spell system where players burn gold directly in their spell casting? The whole point of the "spell materials" system was to force players to deal with the logistics of hauling around lots of random components. If you're not really going to track any of that then why bother to use components anyway?

-Note I'm not saying this is bad to do it this way, I do it this way. But it seems disingenuous to both care about players using components and then not care about any details regarding those components.

 

[iserith]

It does show that proper use of use of gold and resources adds a good layer of detail and complexity and cuts down in some gamier elements of casting.

Get some hirelings to carry your coal. My 8-Str character in ToA, Iriaebor Ford, hired a Chultan guard named Tallsquare to carry most of his stuff. He's a great supporting character, too. "No time for love, Dr. Ford!"

We pay him with any copper we find.

 

[Ovinomancer]

You wouldn't have to. Base prices for materials could still be provided in the book. If you don't care how much coal costs, just go with how much the book says it costs. But "10gp of materials" is a poor measurement system. Why not just switch to a gold-to-spell system where players burn gold directly in their spell casting? The whole point of the "spell materials" system was to force players to deal with the logistics of hauling around lots of random components. If you're not really going to track any of that then why bother to use components anyway?

-Note I'm not saying this is bad to do it this way, I do it this way. But it seems disingenuous to both care about players using components and then not care about any details regarding those components.

But that then establishes a base economy for everyone -- goods cost X amount as a baseline. Anyone with more interest in building an economy or changing facets of it now has more things they have to overwrite. I'd rather page count in my rulebooks be saved for other things than extensive lists of the cost per weight of things like charcoal.

ETA: and I care about components because I like the flavor they impart and the occasional wealth expense balance part, not the tracking endless varieties of weird things. I love component pouches, for instance, as simple and flavorful repositories of weird things.

 

[schnee]

You wouldn't have to. Base prices for materials could still be provided in the book. If you don't care how much coal costs, just go with how much the book says it costs. But "10gp of materials" is a poor measurement system.

Disagree. It's an abstraction of 'don't use this thing for Advantage willy-nilly or you will start to have to spend time and money much more than you anticipate'.

Why not just switch to a gold-to-spell system where players burn gold directly in their spell casting? The whole point of the "spell materials" system was to force players to deal with the logistics of hauling around lots of random components.

Nope. It was designed for resource management and flavor. Powerful spells have expensive spell components. Other spells have them because a culture raised on 'Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog' kind of expects it.

If you're not really going to track any of that then why bother to use components anyway?

Because, for the people that use them, it's fun. Everyone else hand-waves it away.

 

[Sunseeker]

Disagree. It's an abstraction of 'don't use this thing for Advantage willy-nilly or you will start to have to spend time and money much more than you anticipate'.

Nope. It was designed for resource management and flavor. Powerful spells have expensive spell components. Other spells have them because a culture raised on 'Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog' kind of expects it.

Because, for the people that use them, it's fun. Everyone else hand-waves it away.

I don't see the appeal of abstracting things only to not-abstract them.

 

[Dausuul]

Just an update to this my DM says that in his world the incense is a common aromatic oil and the herbs like a sprinkle of coriander (cilantro) for the ‘Muricans but in his benevolence he is ruling that the full weight of charcoal is only required for the first casting and a much smaller amount is required for subsequent castings so that’s a result. He made this ruling after consulting his original first edition books of course.

Well, that is certainly a... way... to resolve this issue.

I guess it works out nicely for you, since presumably you can now replace your familiar for cheap. But I don't get why anyone would look at a list of three ingredients, one of which is ultra-cheap, one of which is moderately cheap, and one of which is an expensive luxury good, and conclude that it must be the ultra-cheap one which determines the price of the whole.

 

[Schmoe]

Ah yes, how to acquire and transport large quantities of not-so-valuable goods like charcoal, or copper coins. That is a very familiar problem.

 

[ccs]

Why not just switch to a gold-to-spell system where players burn gold directly in their spell casting?

That'd work for my 1/2ling warlock at least. Her patron "Scales" is an ancient pseudo-dragon. Scales might be a small dragon, but he's still a dragon. I'm sure he'd like an offering of gold more than one of burnt wood/herbs/& incense.