D&D 5E The classes of 5e (now with 90% less speculation)


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Nivenus

First Post
Is "stupid" the word you really you want to use?

Yeah, actually, it is.

I think anyone who puts their opinions on a pedestal and degrades those of others simply because they're different is being an ignorant jerk, because they're operating from the position that there isn't another way of doing things.

Mod Note: Two wrongs don't make a right - you can't effectively fight jerkiness with name calling and insults, folks! So, please, keep it civil. ~Umbran

Again, I don't think that what these people want to include is a bad thing. I just think that their desire to exclude things on the arbitrary basis that they weren't always there is stupid.
 
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LurkAway

First Post
I think anyone who puts their opinions on a pedestal and degrades those of others simply because they're different is being an ignorant jerk, because they're operating from the position that there isn't another way of doing things.

Again, I don't think that what these people want to include is a bad thing. I just think that their desire to exclude things on the arbitrary basis that they weren't always there is stupid.
I think your statement is unnecessarily polarizing. First of all, it depends on the context, and it's not arbitrary. If a new player wanted to create a halfling called Clint Eastwood wearing a cowboy hat, it's not stupid or arbitrary for others to express discontent. If a new player wants to create an evil torturer PC, it's not stupid or arbitrary to complain. What's happening is that the other players are feeling threatened by an element that is dissonant with the shared narrative. Sure, it's not mature or generous to want to exclude everything you don't like from a system at the expense of others, but it can work the other way around with the tyranny of the minority so to speak. So it really depends on the context, and I'm not sure that your blanket statement and your choice of words are all that helpful.
 

Nivenus

First Post
I think your statement is unnecessarily polarizing. First of all, it depends on the context, and it's not arbitrary. If a new player wanted to create a halfling called Clint Eastwood wearing a cowboy hat, it's not stupid or arbitrary for others to express discontent.

First of all, this isn't likely to come up all that often. Secondly, if it does, it all depends, as you say, on the context. It's up to the DM really, if that's acceptable. I see no reason why D&D can't support such a character. It's not my preferred style, but hey, whatever works for your game and your group of players.

If a new player wants to create an evil torturer PC, it's not stupid or arbitrary to complain. What's happening is that the other players are feeling threatened by an element that is dissonant with the shared narrative.

That sounds more like a player/DM problem than a problem with the game. FWIW, I think evil characters should be supported by the rules.

Sure, it's not mature or generous to want to exclude everything you don't like from a system at the expense of others, but it can work the other way around with the tyranny of the minority so to speak. So it really depends on the context, and I'm not sure that your blanket statement and your choice of words are all that helpful.

My choice of words may not be helpful, but I think they're honest.

Again, I ask: why should D&D only support one style of play and atmosphere? That's never been the idea behind it. The very first versions of the games had adventures with robots and spaceships and a sidebar for psionics was in the Player's Handbook. D&D has always been about running the game you want to run, regardless of whether or not that fits into what other people think is D&D.
 


gyor

Legend
I guess rangers would be fighter/rogue/druids and paladins fighter/cleric/warlords, and having a single class for such builds doesn't seem like a bad idea.

But assassin? That would be just plain rogue.

Actually the assassins more like Rogue/Shadowcaster/Ninja with a strong focus on poisons.

Yes Rogues have shealth in common with Assassins, but so do Rangers.

Assassins have access to lots of Shadow Magic and poisons.

Assassins are for more focused on combat and killing in general then rogues.

Rogues in 4e shift alot, but Assassins teleport through shadows just for example. Even in 3e Assassins used magic.
 


LurkAway

First Post
Again, I ask: why should D&D only support one style of play and atmosphere?
It doesn't, but that's not what I dispute. I dispute that it's stupid or arbitrary or being an ignorant jerk to simply desire to exclude subjectively dissonant elements from a story.

That's never been the idea behind it. The very first versions of the games had adventures with robots and spaceships and a sidebar for psionics was in the Player's Handbook.
Separate optional adventure modules and optional sidebars was exactly the correct approach for dealing with robots and psionics at that time.
 

Aldarc

Legend
It doesn't, but that's not what I dispute. I dispute that it's stupid or arbitrary or being an ignorant jerk to simply desire to exclude subjectively dissonant elements from a story.
Dissonant for whom? That's the issue. You acknowledge that it's subjective. You can easily say as a DM "no warlords in my campaign," but it's much harder for others to say "warlords are a playable class" when they are not included in the rules.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
I really don't think there is any chance that they will make different classes for Fighter, Warrior and Fighting-man :D It's clear that these are just name variations of the same class.

I also really doubt that Priest, Mage and Thief will be separate classes.

Racial classes might be in just as they might be out. It will be a political decision... but may also depend on how solid will be the multiclassing rules and how many options will the corebooks provide for class customization, because there may be little reason for an Elf class if you can make a well-working archer/wizard with some "elvish" extra add-on for example.

My take:

Assassin
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Illusionist
Monk
Mystic *
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer
Warlock
Warlord
Wizard

*tentative because I have no idea of what it was
 

Wormwood

Adventurer
The 5e Assassin will probably look much more like the 4e Executioner than the base 4e Assassin class. The Executioner was created with the stated intent of being a 4e re-imagining of the 1e Assassin, after all.

If that's the case, we'll see a class much like the rogue but more focused on poisons and lining up a death attack and less emphasis on exploration.
 

LurkAway

First Post
Dissonant for whom? That's the issue. You acknowledge that it's subjective. You can easily say as a DM "no warlords in my campaign," but it's much harder for others to say "warlords are a playable class" when they are not included in the rules.
No, my issue exactly is using the words "stupid" and "arbitrary" and "ignorant jerk".

For example, with the poll "Would you like to see Healing Surges in the next edition of D&D?", over 50% votes "No, I don't want Healing Surges". Is it helpful for us to start calling the OP or the voters "stupid" and "arbitrary" and "ignorant jerks"? Nivenus thinks his use of words is honest. I think it's inflammatory, period.
 

Nivenus

First Post
No, my issue exactly is using the words "stupid" and "arbitrary" and "ignorant jerk".

For example, with the poll "Would you like to see Healing Surges in the next edition of D&D?", over 50% votes "No, I don't want Healing Surges". Is it helpful for us to start calling the OP or the voters "stupid" and "arbitrary" and "ignorant jerks"? Nivenus thinks his use of words is honest. I think it's inflammatory, period.

To be clear, I think the attitude is stupid. I think the persons in question might be intelligent.

The poll about healing surges is also relative. "No, I don't want healing surges" doesn't mean, "I'll quit the game if they include this option." It's "I'd rather this wasn't part of the main set of rules."

I understand if my statement seems as absolute as the former and not as relative as the latter. But what I'm saying is that the attitude that plays a game of chicken with WotC and draws lines in the sand is stupid.
 

LurkAway

First Post
Nivenus, I've become confused by exactly what you're saying. Regarding these atttitudes, I think the difference between 1e and 2e, and 2e and 3e, and 3e and 4e, and 4e and 5e -- they're all lines in the sand. There are no objectively right or wrong rules for a right or wrong story. Neverthless, the desire to draw a line in the sand is not any more stupid or abitrary than the impetus that caused 5E to see the light of day.
 

Nivenus

First Post
Nivenus, I've become confused by exactly what you're saying. Regarding these atttitudes, I think the difference between 1e and 2e, and 2e and 3e, and 3e and 4e, and 4e and 5e -- they're all lines in the sand. There are no objectively right or wrong rules for a right or wrong story. Neverthless, the desire to draw a line in the sand is not any more stupid or abitrary than the impetus that caused 5E to see the light of day.

Those who draw the line in the sand about Vancian magic are as much in the wrong to me as those who draw a line in the sand about dragonborn. Both are denying others a chance to play the way they want to play.
 

ferratus

Adventurer
The 5e Assassin will probably look much more like the 4e Executioner than the base 4e Assassin class. The Executioner was created with the stated intent of being a 4e re-imagining of the 1e Assassin, after all.

If that's the case, we'll see a class much like the rogue but more focused on poisons and lining up a death attack and less emphasis on exploration.

If the 5e assassin looks a lot like the 4e Essentials assassin, I can be very happy. Especially if the poisons are moved to the equipment chapter where they belong instead of being a power.
 

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